Dr. Robert Malone and Joe Rogan #1757 (December 31, 2021)

experience podcast by night all day. Yeah. So first of all, thanks for coming and very nice tie, thanks christmas present. Um actually Ryan cole is the one that first got these and my wife has been jealous ever since. So this is what I got from. Where does one get a covid tie? I don't know. She looked it up on, on amazon or someplace and and found it. You gotta love how industrious some of these folks are just, you know, they find a niche like I know what I'm gonna sell covid ties and there you go. I gotta, I gotta have a tux for an event that's coming up in texas in a couple of months. And so my wife is writing to the guy that does the ties and to see if he can make a bow tie that's got the virus on it. Are you uh, I mean are you tired of this dealing with this? Do you feel a duty to talk about this? Like We should just say because historically we should just state what's happening here. So today is the 20, no, the 30th of december and yesterday you were kicked off twitter, correct? True. Um, we scheduled this in advance. It's just coincidentally that you were kicked off twitter. What, what were you kicked out first of all, before we even do this, please tell everybody what your history is and what your, what your degrees are and what you do. Okay, so I'm gonna do the short version. Um, so you know, this can last for an hour. Um, if we go into the whole history of M. RNA vaccines and all that kind of stuff. Uh my history I am uh I was originally a carpenter and a farmhand uh in the central coast of California and decided that I wanted to go back to school and did two years of computer science and then decided that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life looking at a computer monitor in a basement. Bad decision and decided that I wanted to try to become an MD. Which was a hard thing to try to do in the In the late 70s. So that was a real stretch objective, Went to U. C. Davis after two years of undergrad at Santa Barbara City College. And and wanted to work on this new text base called molecular biology in a particular on cancer. My mother was definitely afraid of breast cancer. And so I looked around and found a laboratory U. C. Davis with a guy named bob cardiff and another guy named mary Gardner that we're working with retroviruses and their links to breast cancer. And it just happened that while I was in there this is circa 83 84. Um This whole thing cut loose in san Francisco with the immunodeficiency syndrome in men. And the lab ended up right at the forefront of that Davis is just down the street basically from san Francisco and at the Davis primate center they had discovered that there were monkeys that had immunodeficiency. And so I was there in the lab as an undergraduate, as a total bench rat when Preston Marx and mary Gardner and others made the first discovery of a retrovirus basis for immunodeficiency in primates. And then Murray went to the pastor, brought back the virus literally in his pocket. Um he went there with bob gallo, met with a guy named Luc Montagnier that you may know and uh that kind of kicked off the whole vaccine effort for AIDS. So I that's kind of what I cut my teeth on and so I came out of that. I, you know, I was, it was it was really bold to think that I could get into medical school and I kind of overshot the mark. I got an MD PhD scholarship at Northwestern University in Chicago. And so I went from having grown up in santa Barbara with my wife, We were high school sweethearts to Chicago and that was kind of an abrupt transition. So um we decided I would do my graduate work at SAn Diego and I've been accepted into a program at U. C san Diego that had two of the top gene therapy specialist. I really wanted to do gene therapy with retroviruses. That was what I thought was going to be my life. And so we moved down to SAn Diego and I started working in the laboratory of Inder verma, which is in the molecular biology and virology labs at the sulk institute. And this is a place where graduate students normally aren't allowed to go. It was there was seven Nobel Laureates at the time plus Jonas. A really intense competitive environment carved out a little niche that I was going to work on for my graduate work which was asking questions about how a retrovirus RNA is packaged. And from that I had to develop a series of technologies to manufacture RNA and structure it and eventually put it into cells and that through a cascade of events being at the right place at the right time asking the right questions surrounded by geniuses. Um uh led to the series of discoveries that now forms the basis of the RNA technology platform that gives rise to these vaccines And 10 issued patents from they were all filed in 89. So that's kind of my origin story that it relates to this virus and vaccine in this. But since then went on finished my M. D. Uh did two fellowships at U. C. Davis taught pathology for years. Set up a gene therapy lab had many other discoveries came out to the east coast created the technology platform that is now the basis of the company called Synovial. We actually originally founded in no video in the United States. This is post electrical fields. They have one of the DNA vaccines for Covid. Um Then the planes hit the towers, the investors pulled back and I went to work for a company called die import vaccine company that had the Prime systems contract as government speak for all the biodefense products for the Department of Defense for Advanced Development which is to say clinical trials through licensure. And that's my kind of transition from being an academic to focusing on actually making things that work in people. And the big epiphany there was that the world is full of these academic thought leaders that publish in big journals and stuff but that doesn't really lead to products. And I really wanted to make products that would help people. and so since then for the last I guess it's about 20 years I've been focused on actually doing stuff regulatory affairs, clinical development, getting the necessary training etcetera. Completed a fellowship at Harvard University Medical School in uh um Global as a global clinical scholar to round out my CV. And I've run you know, over 100 clinical trials um mostly in the vaccine space but also in drug repurposing. I've been involved in every major outbreak since AIDS. This is kind of what I do. Um I've worn literally billions of dollars in federal grants and contracts. I'm often brought in by NIH to serve as a study section chair For awarding you know 80 to $120 million dollar contracts in vaccines and biodefense. I've spent countless hours at the C. D. C. At the A. C. A. C. I. P. Meetings. Um have multiple friends at the C. D. C. I worked closely with defense threat reduction agency which is and it's one of my favorite clients partners. Teaming partners and I work with the kim biodefense group. There's other branches um including the other this is not the branch that funded the Wuhan labs. That's another branch of Detroit. Um I've got many friends in the intelligence community so I'm I'm kind of a pretty deep insider in terms of the government. I know Tony Fauci personally I've dealt with him my whole career. Um And then and then we had this particular outbreak and um I was the tip of the spear on bringing the Ebola vaccine forward that we now call the Merc Ebola vaccine. I'm the one that got Mark involved. This episode is brought to you by athletic greens. Even if you have the healthiest diet imaginable it's hard to give our body everything it needs. Which is why I take athletic greens. Just one tasty scoop of A. G. One contains 75 vitamins, minerals and whole food sourced ingredients. 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You can easily customize the system for your home online in minutes and even get free custom recommendations from simply safe. No long term contracts or commitments, hurry supplies are limited. Take 40% off at simply safe dot com slash Rogan today go to simply safe dot com slash Rogan. Now when the pandemic broke out previous to that, I mean you're, you're kind of thought of as a heretic now in some strange way. And yeah, pariah is probably a better word. And the fact that you've been banned from twitter is it's it's very confusing because I've been following your tweets and I've been reading all the things you've written and I don't understand how it justifies a ban and I don't know what was the particular particular tweet. Did did they tell you what the particular tweet was or what the offense was that they never tell you. They never told you never tell anybody they removed you for not going along with whatever the tech narrative is because tech clearly has a censorship agenda when it comes to covid in terms of treatment, in terms of the whether or not you are promoting what they would call vaccine. Hesitancy, they can ban you for that. They can ban you for in their eyes, what they think is a justifiable offense and they're doing this and I don't know who these people are that are doing this, but they're doing this. This one of the most important things about you. Reading out your history like that is to one of the most qualified people in the world to talk about vaccines. Thank you for that. I think that that's so one way that some people put it is, and of course since this has happened, I've been contacted by multiple lawyers that are looking at filing a suit just like Alex Berenson has won against twitter. Um, and and the point is made just with what you just made. Um, if so, the point that I think is kind of succinct on this is um, if my voice, if there's no merit to my voice being in the conversation, whether it's true or not, whether I'm factually correct or not, let's park that just for a minute whether or not I'm right and everything I say, and I freely admit no one's perfect. I'm not perfect. That's one of my car points is people should think for themselves. And I try really hard to give people the information and help them to think not to tell them what to think. Okay. But the point is if if I'm not, if it's not okay for me to be part of the conversation, even though I'm pointing out scientific facts that may be inconvenient, then who is who can be allowed. Um, and whether you're in the camp that says I'm a liar and I didn't invent this technology despite the patents when there's a whole cohort of that, No one can debate that dispute that. I played a major role in the creation of this tech and virtually all other voices that have that background have conflicts of interest, financial conflicts of interest. I think I'm the only one that doesn't I'm not getting any money out of this. So I think that it starts to touch on some fundamental constitutional principles about rights of free speech. I expect that's kind of where you're going on that. Well, most certainly, but also how disturbing it is for someone who's not an academic like myself, to watch people like you get silenced and silenced in this platform of social media where people are exchanging information they're posting up studies and you're you're discussing different parts of this pandemic that are in the news and what what the issues may lie in and where your background and your expertise allows you to explain this in a way that maybe it's not being explained because of the narrative that's being discussed in the mainstream news. And to watch you get silenced, first of all, to watch, you get ostracized. I've seen that I've seen people distance themselves from you, I've seen people call you a crazy person and criticize you, but with no specific thing to point to, it became like a tag they put on you like, oh that guy, like I I brought you up to someone and he goes, oh, that guy is crazy. I go how? So there was no answer. Yes. Okay, so this is the thing you're going to just say someone's crazy when they say something that's inconvenient or say something that makes you uncomfortable because you've decided to accept a certain narrative. Did twitter warn you, was there any tweets where they said that this is misleading or anything? No, they never do. Do you have any idea what the final tweet was or what the context was? I think I do, and there's no way to confirm it until the lawyers, you know, do their lawyering? Um now I did have, in the case of when I was banned from linkedin, remember this happened, I wasn't aware of that. Yeah, I was deep platform from linkedin many months ago, and uh it was uh there was actually two events of of deplatforming in linkedin and in both cases, I was able to get an explanation for what the specific crimes were the thought crimes. And in in the first one, it was a tweet a linkedin posting in which I pointed out that the chairman of the board of Thomson, Reuters also sits on the board of fighter and I simply wrote, does this look like a conflict of interest to you? Okay. And this gets to your core question about tech, It's not tech, it's the horizontal integration across all major industries now under the control of common funds, all of these industries, the the harmonization of the tech censorship, the interests of pharma, um big media et cetera and governments all being harmonized in their messaging globally. I mean to travel a lot. Okay, I see the same and I have physicians coming to me all the time about what they're experiencing the same playbook is going on every continent. Okay, but getting back to linkedin, so this is, this is the first event and steve Kirsch intervened, called up a vice president linkedin and steve Kirsch is a tech guy, right? Yeah, yes, he's a Silicon Valley entrepreneur um who you may or may not recall that I was on the bret weinstein dark horse podcast with steve to kind of let this whole fire up months and months and that's right, okay, that's where I first saw him. Yeah, so so he he has a great network connections in Silicon Valley, He invented the optical mouse um and so he called this vice personal linkedin. The guy looked into it. Meanwhile people started dropping off of linkedin in protest and there was a major press articles all over the world and then they reinstated me. And I actually got a very kind letter. This is unprecedented personal letter from this Vice President apologizing and saying and saying specifically that they didn't have the talent to fact check me and uh then therefore they were gonna let me go now then subsequently I got dropped again and the phone call was made and they got put on in that case the sin was that some one of their fact checkers because remember this is Microsoft. One of their fact checkers had identified the atlantic monthly article attack articles written about me and concluded that I was an anti-vaxxer and therefore I should not be allowed on linkedin. Now the context for that, that's fascinating is that atlantic Monthly Attack article that is often cited by my detractors and it's a fascinating read. Um we could go down that rabbit hole but no reason. Um it was written a few days after Peter Navarro and I came out with an op ed in the Washington times in which we criticized biden policy on vaccines and said that they should be reserved for those that need them most and not used universally. And we said some other things about the need of trusting and um tools so that people can assess their true risk. It was a political retaliation intended to take me off the map. As I was starting to interact more of a public policy sphere. Now with this twitter event. Mhm. My wife and I have racked our brains about what was the, what is likely to have been the tweet that triggered this and you know you never know the last two that I can think of that went out was one that was in our sub stack in which we referred to a fantastic video that has been put out by the Canadian covid care alliance group that summarizes all the malfeasance and data manipulation misinterpretation associated with the fighter vaccines and their clinical trials. It's a super video and um of course that's I guess that is interpreted as something that would cause people to become vaccine hesitant. That's the sin in general is saying things that cause people to become vaccine hesitant. The other thing that I put out immediately before that was a post a link to a website for the world Economic forum that lays out their entire strategy For how they manage media, how they're managing COVID-19 and all of their core messaging. It's a fascinating website with links. Those are the only two things I can think of that would meet the criteria. So my position all the way through this comes off of the platform of bioethics and the importance of informed consent. So my position is that people should have the freedom to choice of choice, particularly for their Children and that in order to can to appropriately choose to participate in a medical experiment. They have to be fully informed of the risks as well as the benefits. And so I've tried really hard to make sure that people have access to the information about those risks and potential benefits. The true unfiltered academic papers and raw data etcetera. And the policy that's being implemented is one in which no discussion of the risks are allowed. Because by definition they will elicit vaccine hesitance. So it can't be discussed. But that's the fundamental background that's the backbone of informed consent. So informed consent is not only not happening, it's being actively blocked. That makes sense. It does make sense. And it's unprecedented. I mean, I can't recall a time ever where people weren't able to discuss the side effects of medication whether or not the studies are accurate. Whether or not people should universally take these things or whether it should be done on a person by person basis. This is a it's a very strange time. And so when someone who's an expert like yourself has a dissenting opinion and you see that dissenting opinion immediately silenced or or at least at least immediately criticized. And then these attempts at silencing it, it just it just signifies how confusing and how troubled the times rent are when Covid first hit When the lockdown started happening in March of 2020 what was your position on all this? So you're kind of asking my origin story with Covid? Yes I mean were you initially um have have you taken the Covid vaccine? So the answer is yes. I've also been infected twice after you took it. Um Once before I was infected at the end of february because I was attending a M. I. T. Conference on drug discovery and artificial intelligence. So this is pre lockdown february 20 you but it goes back further than that. There's a CIA agent that I've co published within the past named Michael Callahan. He was in Wuhan in the 4th quarter of 2019. He called me from Wuhan on January four. I was currently managing a team that was focusing on drug discovery for organophosphate poisoning, ergo nerve agents for detras defense threat reduction agency involving um high performing computing and bio robots screening high end stuff. And he told me robert you've got to get your team spun up because we've got a problem with this new virus. I went with him through prayer outbreaks. And so it was then that I turned my attention to this. I started modeling a key protein, a protease inhibitor Of this virus when the sequence was released on January 11 as the Wuhan seafood market virus. And I've been pretty much going nonstop ever since to that point with with drug repurposing. So I'm the one that originally discovered from a Guardian is an agent? Um because I was self treating myself after I got infected with agents that we had identified through the computer modeling. So February of 2020 you get infected. And how bad is your case? Bad? I thought I was going to die. You gotta remember. I was up up up on all the latest information from china and everywhere else. I knew all about this virus. I knew, you know, I've been watching the videos of people dropping in the street. My lungs were burning until I took from Azzedine. And that relieved that and what is from Azzedine, otherwise known as Pepsi. So just on this tangent since I've said it, I've got some good news to announce first time here. Uh Today we believe we should have the first patient enrolled in our clinical trials of the combination of marketing and celecoxib for treating SARS Kobe too. This is a trial is being run by the company Leidos which is one of my clients that I've helped design. That's based on my discoveries. They're funded by defense threat reduction agency. So this is another drug combination. Now I work with all these folks like Peter and Pierre um that I know you know Peter McCullough Pierre Kory. Uh but I haven't pushed this drug combination. I just felt it was inappropriate until we got the trials running. Um But they are now open and we've passed through the FDA screening process by the way we tried to get we had data showing that adding ivermectin further improve the combination. But the FDA created such enormous roadblocks to us doing an ivor mukden arm that we had to drop it. And by we, what I'm saying is the FDA created so much grief that the D. O. D. Decided it. The juice wasn't worth the squeeze and they just drop that arm. Why do you think that is? What do you think is going on with the the the pushback on Ivor Mactan? So it's not just government and its hydroxychloroquine. And just to put a marker on that, there's good modeling studies that probably half a million excess deaths have happened in the United States through the intentional blockade of early treatment by the US government. That is a half a million. That is a well documented number. Okay. And it's a combination of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. Now, when you ask me why you're asking me to get into somebody's head, what I can say as a scientist is what I observe. Um, the behaviors, the actions, the correspondence, these bizarre things like uh, you know, don't, you know, it's a horse drug, y'all right, Which is amazingly pejorative. I live in Virginia. Okay. I can tell you the people around me, I live in a rural county and I raise horses. Um, that was deeply offensive to use that language in that way. Um, but there's clearly been an intentional push and Zev Zelenko who's a buddy. Uh, the guy that came out with the original protocol. Zlenko protocol. And was the one by the way that wrote the letter two. Uh huh. To trump advocating for hydroxychloroquine. Okay. Kind of important to put that together. He's put together a great little video clip in which he clearly documents the conspiracy between Janet Woodcock and Rick Bright to make it so that physicians could not administer hydroxychloroquine outside of the hospital. And who is Janet Woodcock and who's rick Bright rick Bright was the head of Barda of Barda, the biomedical advanced research director, which is the group that for instance funded the J and J vaccine and Operation warp speed etcetera. So they're the big ticket funder in Health and Human service of biodefense products. Who is she Janet Woodcock um was head of operation warp speed for drugs and until very recently, head of the FDA, she is known as the person who kind of gets the credit let's say for the opioid crisis for her role at the FDA. So between the two of them was there was some sort of a concerted effort to suppress the use of hydroxychloroquine rick Bright in in videotaped testimony has explicitly spoken about how they conspired to cook a strategy using emergency use authorization to make it. So that hydroxychloroquine could only be administered in the hospital, which by the way is too late for when hydroxy should be used and why did they do that? That is what is the unknown And and there's so many wise and house behind this I'd like to say there's a stack of stuff that doesn't make sense. It's about this high. Um now there is I can't prove I can't get into rick's head. I know rick quite well. Um I don't know what he's currently working for the Rockefeller. He did a whistleblower case and then he left the government. But all I know is they did this and rick admits on it on videotape that he did it and um and he states that the reason was is that he believed there was no evidence of hydroxychloroquine being useful for this virus. Now that's false, hydroxychloroquine was known to be effective against SARS. One that wasn't that regular chloroquine. Hydroxy. Hydroxy. Hydroxy and chloroquine are closely related molecules. Hydroxy is slightly less toxic by the way. One of the nice things we had actually filed in during Zika I did a lot of drug repurposing and I filed patents on the use of hydroxy in Zika. One of the reasons is because hydroxy is one of the few molecules that have antiviral activity that are safe in pregnancy and you remember Zika was a pregnancy issue. So hydroxy has been out there for a long time as having viral antiviral effects. And um the other part of of rick story that kind of doesn't make sense that there was no data on efficacy is that um I was the guy that first acquired because I had chinese connections, the chinese protocol for treating this virus. I got it in late february and I sent it into my buddies at the CIA and at the aspirin at the assistant secretary for preparedness and response. So the government had those documents when rick bright made those determinations. So the assertion that there was no data on hydroxychloroquine at the time when this decision was made is just patently false. It's there. So what is the motivation? You're right? What? This none of this makes sense on the only thing, you know this is a this is a journalist problem. Um and you know the classic guidance is follow the money. Yeah. And so it it it is bizarre that Merc would come out with these explicit statements about the safety of Ivor mexican. Both Ivor Mactan and hydroxy are on the W. H. O. List of essential medicines they have been administered for millions and millions of doses. They are among the safest medicines we know when administered within this acceptable window pharmaceutical window. Um They Ivor Mactan is even safer than hydroxy. So Merck coming out out of the blue and saying Ivor Mactan isn't safe is really inexplicable. Now another thing is that I sit on the active committee for drugs as an observer. What is the active committee? This is the NIH committee that's guiding the clinical trials for these various repurposed and novel drugs. I saw listen to heard witnessed the representative of murder that's on the committee because the committee is full of pharmaceutical representatives, even though it's an NIH public committee um explicitly attack the decision for the federal government to test Ivor Mactan. She said there's no reason to do this. Now. What's happened since then is is active sticks is still testing Ivor Mactan and they've had to go to a higher dose because as we pointed out, essentially, their initial trial design was designed to fail. It was a short course with inadequate levels of drug and so now they've upped it, I think it's five days and 600 micrograms per kig, that's the current dozing inactive six. But there is clearly a concerted effort on the part of multiple players in the pharmaceutical industry in concordance with the federal government to kill Ivor Mexican as a potential alternative early treatment strategy. And if you're going to follow the money, the problem is, there's not a lot in Iver Mactan because it is a generic drug and any compound pharmacy can make it and it's fairly cheap. It's fairly cheap because it's easy to make and you know, we, you can get Ivor Middleton um, you know, at in bulk at less than a penny a dose, wow. So um the original SARS was, is, is it 90% similar to SARS COv two. Uh it's that those terms 90 or 96 or 98. Um it's, those are really not there, They're kind of um irrelevant. Uh You know that you can have something that's 99.9% similar and uh the difference is all the difference. But if chloroquine worked on the original SARS or it showed efficacy and original SARS is it safe to assume like without adequate tests that hydroxychloroquine would work on? It's the decision that was made by the chinese government. Okay. That's my point. I got the original chinese protocols. This is what they were using and they were using it effectively. Yeah. Yeah. So were they using ivermectin as well? No, no but other countries have like Japan and India and harder Pradesh as you know has crushed Covid. Yeah. To explain what they did to do that because it's kind of fascinating. It's it's not clear um what are the drugs? So what they did do, what we do know and there there's some backstory to this that we could go into if you want to. But the observation is there was a decision made. The virus was just ripping through Uttar Pradesh. It has almost the same population in the United States. It's huge. Okay. Um dense urban poor. All the characteristics of the stereotypes of the indian countryside. Um and the virus has just ripping through there and causing all kinds of death and disease. And the decision was made out of desperation in that province to deploy early treatments as packages widely throughout the province and it included a number of agents. The composition has not been formally disclosed. It was done in coordination with the United with um wh oh and whatever was in those packages um was rumored to include Ivermectin. Um but there was a specific visit of biden to modi and um a decision was made in the Indian government not to disclose the contents of those packages that were being deployed in Uttar Pradesh which they're still there. And Uttar Pradesh is flatlined right now. The rest of the world is yelling about a macron and and and hospitalizations. Well South Africa isn't but peter Pradesh is still flatlined in terms of deaths. So they were visited by someone in the biden administration's there's a meeting between joe biden and and um modi and you believe that out of that meeting, I don't know what they said. I didn't wasn't invited. All I know is that immediately afterwards there was a decision not to disclose the contents of what was being deployed in Uttar Pradesh. It's so crazy to imagine that in the middle of a pandemic there's one place, one area of India that's extremely successful in combating the virus and they're not going to say how they did it. I mean that's that's nuts. That's you know, so that's that's where I kind of Mhm. My stance in all of this is to say here are the facts here. The verifiable data draw your own conclusion. Now, February of 2020 you catch it. What did you take from Aberdeen and anything else? No, there's nothing else available. So this was so early on in the pandemic. How did they did, did you want to being hospitalized? I did have I did develop long covid and people always I always get the why did you take the vaccine? Well, I took it fairly early on. I took Moderna because that's what the National Guard was deploying in my very rural county in basically central northern Virginia. Isn't there some evidence that the vaccine actually helps people with long covid? That was the um that was the rumor at the time. That was then. That was I took it for two reasons. I had long Covid. It was supposed to help with that and I knew I was going to have to travel internationally to France and Portugal in the near future. Now, is there any evidence that the vaccine helps against long Covid? Or is there one anecdotally? Is there anything you anecdotally? There was and I have not seen a peer reviewed solid publication or or um pre print that supports that now. But that was the act of rumor at the time. And since then. What we do know for sure, well documented. If you've got prior covid in natural immunity, you you have a higher risk of adverse events from the jab. Now, the other part of my story that often gets overlooked. So I took two doses of Moderna with the second dose I developed stage three hypertension With systolic blood pressure of up to 2.30. Okay. I'm lucky to be alive. You know what it means is I've had a stress test of my aorta and my cerebral vascular system and I didn't have a stroke and I didn't tear my orta all to shreds. But it's a good thing I had I had irregularities of heart beat, incredible hypertension, pot syndrome. Narcolepsy, restless leg syndrome. These are all known side effects that are associated with the vaccine. They're relatively less frequent than the myocarditis in the Children. Male Children in particular. But they're all known on the list of adverse events. And it's very clear that people that have natural immunity have a much higher risk factor um for this whole spectrum of adverse events. But even they get jabbed even though that's known there's so many people out there telling people who have just recovered from covid to get vaccinated. It is um there is a number of things here that um are not supported by the science. I'll say gently um to be less gents, since gentle since we're on the joe Rogan show I can speak freely. It's nothing thoughts. This is just wrong. It's not consistent with the data. Well it's it doesn't make sense either. What we know about natural immunity is that natural immunity at least according to that study in Israel, which is like what 2.5 million people, I think they said that it's between six and 13 times more effective than the vaccine. That is six or 13 times more effective in hospitalized preventing, hospitalized. Covid it's more like 20 or 20 years old. Yeah. 27 fold Better at protecting against developing the disease. Remember infection does not equal disease. Um and that's only one of over 140 studies that document that natural immunity is superior to the vaccine induced immunity. And oh by the way, as a vaccine biologist and an immunologist, I wouldn't expect anything different. But the CDC recently disputed this. This it was a fascinating of play. So the C. D. C. For most of us that are at all objective in the science world? Look at what's going on at the CDC? Aghast. I mean the CDC has just compromised um what they did with that was a very small study with intrinsic bias all over the place, much, much smaller than the Israeli study that you're citing much less rigorous, less statistical power. And they pushed that out as as there justification for their position concerning uh natural immunity. But who funded that? Who funded that study CDC? It would be the federal government. So they funded this study. They did it themselves. And do you do you believe they did it with the intent of coming to the conclusion? You're asking me to apply intent and I've had too much time with lawyers and I'm not going to do it good for you. So either way, um There's many, many, many studies that point to the fact that natural immunity is superior. Absolutely. Having recovered from covid over 100 and 40. And also multiple studies that show that people who have had covid who get vaccinated after the fact have a higher risk. I think it's between two and four fold right on top of the data to and fourfold risk of adverse side effects. Increased risk. Yeah, it increased risk. So for you, you did not know this when you get vaccinated. What was your thoughts? I mean, since this was a technology that you were pivotal part of the creation of and so you're getting this vaccine, you probably were thinking, look at this all my hard work come to fruition. It's gonna protect me from the virus. I actually said to the nurse when I took the first jab, um I bragged a little bit, I usually don't um I'm usually, you know, keep it on the down low. Um I don't like to wear it on my shoulder. But um I did say, you know, I I invented this tech. She was like, oh that's really cool, can I take a selfie. Um but she aspirated before she shot it into you. I have that whole aspiration thing. Yeah, I'm sure she did. Yeah. Yeah. She's a well trained nurse. When you say that whole aspiration thing. A any skilled medical practitioner when I inject my horses right? I breed loose Itano horses. I've got 20 on the farm. Okay. I give them drugs all the time. I always aspirated but I saw the shot where joe biden got it on tv and they didn't aspirate them. They just don't know what to say. I'll tell you what to say. Yeah. So so the way to do it. Yeah. And was that really a vaccine and then we go down that hole rabbit. That's that's my favorite rabbit hole. Um Because the fake set remember? Yeah. So you know there is there. Okay so you know joe you're in media. I guess what what we're, what we're experiencing is a coordinated media warfare. The level of which we have never seen before. And I in my peers who are experienced in multiple outbreaks have never seen this level of coordinated propaganda. Is this because there's never been an outbreak that coincided with the use of social media Because there really hasn't been. I mean H1N1 was was it 2009 that that broke out? I was pretty active through Zika but okay. And that was I don't remember the years but I was on linkedin and twitter all the time. The thing about what's going on now is that there's a heightened aspect and in terms of like it's the influence on society that social media has. That is it's stronger now than it was two years ago. It's stronger two years ago, than it was two years before. It's ramping up exponentially in some sort of a strange way that's affecting society. And then the censorship aspect of it, which is kicked in. And as you said that that they're stepping in line with tech doing it with the pharmaceutical companies, doing it with the government. They're all sort of on the same page when it comes to the messaging. Yes. So now you're now you're going to the next level of, you know, WTF. Um and uh um how to how to open that can of worms. First off, you don't see um you're aware of the trusted News initiative. Yes, Can you explain to people? Yes. So, um there uh the BBC announced to the world last fall that this organization that they had led the development of which ties together big tech and big media in service of the government uh and was built expressly for the purpose of protecting the democratic voting system that, you know, small d the democracy um and in voting integrity from undue influence from hostile offshore players through media information campaigns. Um which you'll recall was the claim that was made against Russia. And so this was the response of the Western nations um to build this new structure called the trusted News initiative that would survey all information about elections and prevent the intrusion of foreign information into the democratic process and creation of undue influence by foreign actors shortly after it was created, it was there was an awareness in the pharmaceutical industry that this could be used to um address a a particular devil challenge that they had, which was the pejorative label anti-vaxxers. That's also been deployed against climate spect skeptics. Okay, so anti-vaxxers you'll recall is the label that is used to basically take anybody out that is raising any concerns about vaccine safety. Um it's it's the pejorative that's applied and it makes it really easy for the media to basically um take off the table, anybody that's saying something that is contrary to the interests of the really the vaccine industry. Um so there was a decision that this same toolkit, the same integrated international media and high tech organization led by the BBC would be pivoted to resisting vaccine misinformation and disinformation. And uh they put out a proud press announcement last fall that this is what they were going to do. And um they defined these things misinformation and disinformation as anything which was going to lead to vaccine hesitancy and which was contrary to the official statements of the World Health Organization or their respective National Health organizations. So if CDC says the world is flat, then the world is flat and there will be no discussion about whether or not the world is flat, I'm using obviously an ex uh simplified um silly example. Um so whatever the CDC or Tony Fauci or Tedros etcetera says is truth by definition and any any information or discussion which is contrary to that truth will be suppressed. It will be deleted. And those people will that are are expressing these opinions that would lead to vaccine hesitancy, which to some eyes would be informed consent and and decisions by an individual that they believe the risk benefit ratio doesn't matter. It doesn't make sense to them. That will that information will not be allowed and those people that are spreading that information will not be allowed to interact in the public sphere in social media. Okay, so that's this kind of if you want to unpack this whole thing, it starts by understanding the trusted News initiative and we've got some great links about that that have been put out explain explanatory and links for instance, I put out a substack recently that talks about the trusted News initiative in the censorship in which I linked to both the BBC's trusted news initiative websites. You can see what they have to say and a video that describes the trusted News initiative from my point of view as somebody that's been on the receiving end of the trusted News initiative. Now, that's the starting point, but it doesn't explain the global coordination because Whitney is mostly Western and it doesn't cover a lot of the other, you know, latin America for instance, or spain or Israel and the only way that I can understand how all of this messaging censorship um you know deplatforming, you know what what it really is is canceling and bobby Kennedy makes the point that the first a real example of cancel culture that we can track is Tony Fauci canceling the esteemed virologist Peter Duisburg because he was raising questions about um the origin of HIV and its role in the disease called they called AIDS. Remember when that happened I was had Duisburg on my podcast a long time ago and it was the first time I ever got like extreme pushback from people that were like I mean this is after protease inhibitors have been used so it didn't even make sense and people are saying you have blood on your hands, people are gonna die because of this podcast. And I'm like what what are you saying? Like this is a guy who is a biologist. University University of California Berkeley professor. Yeah, I mean brilliant guy, totally one of the best virologist of his generation full stop and um very controversial opinions. But the only way to find out if someone's controversial opinions are valid is to ask questions and talk to them and let them express themselves and then I wanted to have someone come on and debate him, I could not find anyone willing to do it. It's this is covered in detail in bobby Kennedy's book about Tony Fauci. It's one of the great case studies now we have a more recent example of this cancel culture as it's played by N. A. H. And by Tony in the emails that came out recently when you have Cliff Lane Tony Fauci and um the director of the NIH Francis Collins um basically coming out and saying that they're gonna ridicule and destroy um fringe epidemiologists. And what was their sin? These fringe epidemiologists that that warranted a concerted effort on the part of the federal government to destroy them. Their sin was raising questions about the effectiveness of vaccine lockdowns. Okay. And who were these fringe epidemiologists as stated by Francis Collins. Who by the way has no background in epidemiology or public health. Okay, here's a sequencing gary that's his claim to fame as the human genome project. And the cystic fibrosis trans membrane regulatory protein. He has no background in immunology, no background in vaccine ology, no training in public health. But who are these three fringe epidemiologists? Well, they happen to be full professors from obscure universities. Oxford Harvard and stanford. They were warning about lockdowns. They were warning about lockdowns in the Great Barrington Declaration. That's what prompted that would explain the Great Barrington Declaration. So these three esteemed high profile academic epidemiologists came together and said and did an analysis, comprehensive analysis about everything that was known about lockdowns and their impacts during infectious disease outbreaks. And they came out with a specific statement. You can find it on the web. Look up Great Barrington Declaration and they came out with a specific statement that these lockdowns were going to cause more harm than help which was contrary to the messaging that was being putting put out by Tony and so Tony decided that they had to be destroyed. And then you had Francis Collins recently coming on Fox news. After these emails were void and brought out into the open and saying that if we had followed their advice, millions of people would have died. This is the, this is the fallback. Anytime you criticize these guys, what they say is, oh you're killing people, we are brought to you by black Rifle coffee. You love coffee, you love America. Well black Rifle coffee company is the veteran owned coffee company that serves premium coffee to patriots the whole world over featuring explosive roast profile sourced from high quality coffee beans out of south America. This coffee is roasted with mission like focus five days a week in Manchester Tennessee and Salt Lake city Utah along with every purchase you make, they give back and 2020 they donated over six million cups of coffee to veteran law enforcement and first responders causes why go to the store. When you can receive special discounted pricing on roasts and gain access to exclusive products. 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So if they had just done what Sweden had done and some other countries where they did institute lockdowns and they sort of let people just live their lives and make their own choices. They were saying that millions of people have died. But so it would be so it seems. But time has shown that Sweden actually had a more effective take on the virus. I mean it was highly criticized in the beginning. People were really concerned that they weren't taking it seriously enough. And then there was also some concerned that it wasn't, you couldn't compare. They weren't comparable because the way Sweden is, it's like small towns, they're separated from each other. It's not a high density situation like new york or Los Angeles or Chicago. But overall in time we've seen that this vest vest respiratory disease spreads period no matter what it just, it seems to make its way to people no matter where you are and what it's done in that country is it's kind of burned through the population and there mortality rate is lower than most places. Their infection rate is lower than most places and it didn't do the devastating economic damage and the devastating damage to Children that were forced to isolate and not be with their friends and not go to school and not socialize. So here's an even more fun one. Okay, that that just cuts right to it. Um You know, the the pejorative these days is the country's name is actually fizz real, it's no longer Israel. Um The Israeli people are very compliant with their government and the government has a financial deal with Pfizer's obviously okay. And they only have fights or vaccines and they're now on jab Number four, there's a natural experiment that's occurring in the Palestinian territory, in the surrounding states, the surrounding states in the Palestinian territory does not have that level of vaccine uptake at all the mortality in the surrounding states. And the Palestinian authority is substantially less from this virus than the mortality in Israel now. Is that, is it factored by age? Is it like what is so whether any, what are the variables? Good question. And and this, this is akin to this mysterious mystery. Sorry, of what's going on in Central Africa and the malaria Belt where you have really low levels of mortality. Um, and what you're, what you're hitting on. Um uh appropriately, you're getting right to the core of the issue is confounding variables. And in general, the Israeli, the Israeli population is a little bit older than the Palestinian territory on average. So that's a lower risk. Neither one of them are associated with high rates of mortality of morbidity of obesity. And so that variable seems to be out that maybe one of the major variables in africa is that in that malaria belt people generally aren't fat. Um they happen to also be taking Ivor mexican and hydroxychloroquine for the indigenous parasites that they have to deal with. Um, so a lot of people were saying, well, that must prove that hydroxy and Ivor mexican protect. Well, not. So as you point out, there's a lot of moving parts here. And um, so this is why, you know, I'm glad you didn't ask me. Well, why is that robert? Um because I would have said, I can't say because there's too many confounding variables. However, it is a fascinating observation um, that we have this um intensively vaccinated cohort in Israel and in much, much less vaccinated cohorts in the surrounding states and you can look it up on world demeter. You don't have to believe me. You know, your audience is smart enough, they can go on world zero m and look it up and look at the mortality and morbidity in these different countries and figure it out for themselves is the rate of infection comparable heart rate of infection is a really hard variable because it's a function of the density of testing. And so, you know, this is one of those situations. The more you look for it the more you find which is why you really can't use that as a denominator is the incidence of infection. Because the incidence of infection is totally contaminated by the frequency of testing and the density of testing. So you have to rely on things. The only really the only thing close to a decent outcome indicator that isn't subject to all of this bias that's all over in the system. Except in a few states Iceland. The Scandinavian states generally have relatively clean data. The U. K. To some extent um has cleaner data. It's now clear that the Israeli data set is contaminated by all kinds of monkey business in terms of what gets deleted. But um the only thing that seems close to a reasonable outcome variable is all cause mortality. So because and people get kind of wrapped up around this and they say well you know that that these vaccines these deaths that were I mean this is the everybody argues both sides of the coin with the bear system. Oh that means nothing. And then oh well the CDC uses it. It means everything right. Um And and it's okay for them to use it in the numerator but it's not okay for anybody else to use it. And for people don't know we're talking about we're talking about the vaccine adverse event reporting system that's fares which is which the FDA explicitly said in the licensor packet for commerciality is inadequate detect rare to detect rare adverse events. That's why they forced if if they ever market community in the United States, they're going to have to do a bunch of clinical trials. Which I think is one reason why they're not doing it because the FDA has told them that bears is basically junk. But it's the best we got. Okay. So you know, when you, when you look at these ratios, you the argument as well, just because somebody died within X number of days of receipt of vaccine, it doesn't mean they're death. Is vaccine caused. Its vaccine correlated. That's fair. But it's the only variable we have and it's consistent in that we've had that variable in that outcome measure for decades. Okay. So then we can look at trends. But what we see is this explosion of vaccine associated deaths and you and to kind of pick that apart. People say, you know, well if you had a car accident or a bullet to the head And you went to the hospital and they tested you with a PCR test that's non specific and they ran it up to 42 cycles and they said, Oh look, there's the virus by the way they have a financial incentive to do that. Um that results in a false positive death. True. But the other side of the coin is that if somebody's having brain fog or they have a stroke while they're driving a car and they crash and die And they've had it within you know 48 hours. And when they took the jab and we know the jabs cause blood clotting and strokes. Well then it could well be that an auto accident is vaccine related. Catch my point. So so all of these kind of things you can't sort out what what's what you just kind of have to take the aggregate value and hope that you have a large enough sample size that it contracts, corrects for all that stuff. All that noise that's inherent in the system Now you just glossed over the financial incentive um to report a covid death. What is that? What is the financial incentive? Because there's all these rumors that you would hear about what a hospital gets paid per covid death And that the government gives them money and that they're incentivized to make something mark it down. It's not rumors, rumors. But no I don't have the specific numbers at the top of my head. I'm not a hospitalist and I'm not a hospital administrator. But the the numbers are quite large. There's something like a $3000 basically death benefit to a hospital. If it can be claimed to be covid there's a financial incentive to call somebody Covid positive. The C. D. C. Made a determination in the year one. This is why all of our baseline data is junk. What is the financial incentive to say that they're covid positive. That's why the pcr cycles are ramped up so high. I again you're asking causation I I can tell you that they're the hospitals receive a bonus from the government. I think it's like 3000 bucks. If someone is hospitalized and able to be declared covid positive, they also receive a bonus. I think the total is something like 30,000 an incentive. If somebody gets put on the vent then they get a bonus. If somebody is declared dead with Covid Covid. Okay. So they have an incentive at the front end to declare somebody Covid a covered case. The CDC made the determination that they were going to make a core assumption if pcr positive and you die that is death due to covid. And so the the extreme example just to to show the absurdity um if the patient comes in with a bullet hole in the head um and they do a nose swab and they come up pcr positive. They're determined to have died from covid when in fact they died from lead poisoning. So they've really done that with gunshot victims I don't know about. Yeah. Yeah for sure trauma and other things I've seen that said, but I've always thought that's ridiculous. There's no way because it's it's not it's not the it's not a question of what hospital would do. It's a question of med codes. So the code is set that if you swab that person and you are, you're supposed to swab them and you get a positive signal, are you obligated to swab them no matter who they are, if they come in with an injury, I believe it's the common practice. I don't know whether the whether there would be an obligation that would be a hospital by hospital policy states so that it really is true that if someone has a gunshot wound and they're dying of that gunshot wound and you check them for covid and if they're covid positive and they die, they marked it off as a covid death. That is a that is by definition from the C. D. C. That was a decision that was made early on. That seems insane. There is that there is that's why so many of us are so much in arms up in arms and really pretty aggravated about what's going on is all the way through this. The information. Let me put it this way joe. Part of the reason I know you're somebody who is really committed to bringing everybody together and the idea that we're really one America, we're one people. We shouldn't be divided like this. I'd like that for the whole world. Amen. Amen. Okay we're aligned. We're just humans. Thank you. Okay. But but we've been divided in this way in and it's all been politicized and the data have been so thoroughly manipulated that it's hard for any of us to make sense out of it. And all the way through our government. At least I can't speak to great Britain or the Germany. But our government has had a series of checkpoints where they have a job to do. And I know this because this is what I do for a living right? I do regulatory affairs and clinical development. We wouldn't be having all of this conflict about what is truth if the FDA had done its job, What the FDA didn't do was force the pharmaceutical manufacturers to do their job bob. Now we can we can wrap around, you know. Well maybe it was just they were all in a rush. We were all panicked, blah, blah blah blah blah. But the bottom line was they didn't do their job and they didn't force pharma to do its job. And they didn't employ the standard requirements for testing and verification that farmer was doing its job that I would expect to experience as a clinical researcher on one of my studies. Okay, what's going on with Fizer? If the whistleblower comments hold true and for instance, the maddie to gary case, this young woman who was listed as having a stomachache that participated in the fighter trials when in fact what she had was a seizure and she's now wheel bund wheelchair bound with a nasal gastric tube, One of 1000 subjects. This is a 13 year old girl that was a part of the study. And they wrote it down as what gastric distress? That's that's literally what it says in terms of the adverse effect gastric distress. Like what what is gastric distress? That's it. But what how do they account for all the other injuries? They don't they take her off of the study? How is that possible? That And that's totally unethical. It is. So who's signing off on that? How do they, how are they allowed to do that? So the way the rules work in regulatory affairs. So this is law, right? This regulatory affairs law in common practice at the FDA and globally there's all kinds of treaties and things that regulate how these things are supposed to be done. The rule is used to be that a pharmaceutical company could kind of offload all the liability for bad stuff that might happen in a clinical trial and be mismanaged etcetera onto the performer. The subcontractor used to be that pharma actually did the trials themselves and then they found it was cheaper, more efficient and they could push off their liability if they engaged companies like I've been working for for decades, contract research organizations, clinical contract research organizations. And so that was done for a while. And if anything went bad in the trial then the farmer could say it wasn't us, it was those guys now over the last few years, the FDA got wise to that and they made policy that the responsibility vests with the sponsor that's fancy regulatory speak for its pharma owns it. Okay, so you asked the question whose responsibility is it to ensure that the data isn't contaminated and manipulated? The answer is Fizer wow. So they're responsible for the data. They're allowed to say that this was just some sort of a gastric distress. And the job of the FDA always is to ferret out monkey business, which happens all the time whether intentional or unintentional. And there's all kinds of ways you can craft clinical trials and craft clinical trial study reports, final study reports to hide the bad stuff and highlight the good stuff. So in this clinical trial that this young lady was involved in um how many Children were involved in the study. It's 2000 approximately, but they're split into placebo and experimental groups. And so she was in the treatment group. Now, one of the things that people have said in response to the vaccine injuries is that it's approximately one in 1000 that are getting these significant injuries like myocarditis. And so I think there's a there's a well um, it's important when we talk about these things to make a distinction between an event that is um clinically significant and might result in hospitalization versus something that might be undetected unless you did a laboratory test or you know, maybe like for instance myself when I started to experience those things that I experienced after moderna. I was confused. It was not listed as among the side effects. I thought I'd just suddenly developed um rampant hypertension um until the data started coming out and I you know fortunately I had an astute cardiologist that got me into control and got me under medical management. Um and then I looked into it, oh this is one of the known side effects. And then time went by and it became more and more clear. So the point is that's what gets reported in a study is often biased by how the study is structured because one list when you, when you write the study protocol you list expected adverse events. And so people if those things happen often times they get checked but I guarantee one of the expected adverse events was not seizure and paralysis. Okay now what they did, one of the things, there's all kinds of tricks you can play with the data if you if you're so inclined and that's why it's so important. People like me that do clinical research for a living. We get drummed into our head bioethics on a on a regular basis, it's obligatory obligatory training and we have to be retrained all the time. So that because there's a long history of physicians doing bad stuff, monkey business and the most notable of course in common knowledge is the tuskegee experiments. But so it happens there's all kinds of financial incentives to make bad stuff go away and highlight good stuff, makes the sponsor happy. Um and then you get another contract. These are not little contracts, You know, a modest clinical trial is $20 million. A Big one is 100 million or more. Okay, so these are big money deals. You want to keep that money flowing and you want to keep your sponsor happy. So that's what's come out with the whistleblower with Fizer. Is that the contractor? I think it's here in texas that ran a bunch of those clinical trials um appears to have manipulated data in a variety of ways. Um and and this is done at the level of of checking the data and reconciling the data and deciding which things go into the database and which things don't go into the database and whether or not well if somebody had an adverse event after shot one and then they're dropped because they won't take shot to um you know, do we drop them out of this overall study analysis? That's why there's there's we have all this specific language that we use in our business, the intent to treat cohort the per protocol cohort. These are separate analyses. They describe these differences in how, because it's known that you can manipulate the data in these different ways and it's clear now and basically this was the subject by the way just to bring it back around to our first topic. This is the subject of that on presentation that the Canadians put out that I put in that twitter post was all the different ways that the fighter data was manipulated. The fact that that is grounds for being removed from twitter is so astonishing. Um it's it's just, it blows my mind that that's the number one platform for distributing information right now and that things like that are happening there because it is I mean it's essentially number one that with and facebook, I don't know which one's bigger but for distributing information. So um what's recently taken place? So, so remember looping back, I talked about the interconnectedness at the board level between fighter and Thompson. Reuters? Yes. Okay, Thompson Reuters has become the the fact checker of choice for determining, you know, quotes fact checker, right? And we know we so we can go into the facebook lawsuit that recently broke that whole story open. But Thompson, Reuters is tied to fight sir. Um they have common corporate ownership and they are the fact checker of twitter now. They're integrated. Okay, so it's it's Thompson Reuters is making the decision which has connections to fight sir about what information will be allowed to be discussed on twitter. That is crazy. It's so crazy to even here and I and I don't know how we ever pull out of this mess. I mean, I think we are at a 45 degree downward angle headed into a mountain. I really do. It's it's so strange to me that no one's up in arms about this. Other than a few people that have been censored a few people that have these uh opposing viewpoints that are, you know, deemed to be something that can't be discussed. Well, it's joe it's even deeper than that. Okay, then there's the hunting of physicians. So I myself, you know, Peter McCullough is the textbook example of hunting physicians. Right? The guy is 150,150,000 in debt right now in the hole in trying to defend his medical license is one of the most highly published authors in the world. Um he's an exceptional researcher, you know, and and apparently a pretty good podcaster to um based on the the guys published more in his field than any other physician in history. And Baylor is trying to take him out and it's not only Baylor, it's some entity outside of Baylor that's come in and is financing the attacks on him, but just to bring it home, you know, really not to make it all about me, but to be able to speak in the first person. Okay. So I went to Maui with a bunch of physicians a few months ago and we gave talks and did training about early treatments. We didn't talk about vaccines. There's only one hospital on Maui on the island of Maui. It's owned by a it's basically a Kaiser Permanente satellite. Okay. Um, so we went there, we gave that talk that hospital and the hospital is associated with it are actively involved and have kicked out Kirk mill hound because he's giving early treatment with the horse drug I ever met him. Okay. Now who's carrot milltown? You know, why is he, why is he in this hospital? What is he qualified? Okay. He's an MD PhD pediatric cardiologist with his PhD training at U. C. San Diego in vascular inflammation. He is among the most qualified individuals in the world for managing um covid and commenting on cardio, myocarditis and Children and they've kicked him out of the hospital just for prescribing. I remember early treatment. Okay. He also happens to be a pastor at a local congregation congregation, he runs a food bank, he's whole life. He has traveled to emerging economies to provide free treatment. This is the kind of exemplar person that you know, we all we all should be in a in the best of all possible worlds. And did they give an excuse for this? Are they saying that his prescription of early treatment promotes vaccine, hesitancy like is there any he's prescribing um uh ineffective drugs and putting people's lives at risk. But here's the point I'm not even there yet. Okay. We're just winding up on this one. So the other day, right before christmas, three days before christmas I get a package from my licensing agency which I'm licensed through the state of Maryland. So the state of Maryland Medical board sends me a package. Um, and it is a complaint that's been filed against me? I have six days to respond, basically I end up having to respond on christmas day, okay? Or earlier to this attack claiming that I should lose my medical license. And the citations are that I didn't actually invent M RNA vaccines. Uh, the, a copy of the atlantic monthly attack article on me claims that I'm licensed in Virginia, which I'm not claims that I didn't graduate from Harvard Medical School, which I did. Okay. So I have to respond to all this stuff now in going through it and, and it's just falls, falls, falls, falls all coming and, and pulled a bunch of stuff off of twitter and linkedin and send it in and saying, well this is the reason why this guy should lose his license, okay, because he is responsible for millions of deaths. He said it straight out, okay, I'm responsible for millions of deaths. Um because of what I've said on social media now, who is it that's filing this, it turns out it's the director of recruitment in external affairs of this hospital in Maui. This guy felt that it was necessary to, to send this little package of happiness right before christmas to my licensing board to try to get my license taken away that what we're seeing across the United states and across the world is it's the hospitals and the hospitalists that are attacking outside physicians, do you have any knowledge as to why they're doing this? Other than speculation? Um, if I was to follow the money, I'm going to put it that way. Okay, again, I can't get into their heads. I don't know what's making them do this. It's crazy. Okay. Never been done before. It's happening. You know, we went and did a presentation in Alaska and the same thing was being done for the physicians that came out and spoke about early treatment in Alaska. And fortunately, the Alaska licensing board put out a very terse statement that they don't want to get involved in politics and this kind of tip for tat and that this is outside of their role. Medical licensing boards for this kind of stuff are usually involved in making determinations about somebody's suitability because of drug abuse or sexual activity or other things which are outside or malpractice overt malpractice. Okay, this kind of political weaponization of medical licensing boards is new. Now, here's the, here's the observation that I can make if we follow the money is that hospitals are incentivized to treat covid patients. The thing that ties all this little part of this story together, including the suppression through the government of early treatment, hospitals are incentivized financially to treat covid patients. If covid patients are being treated outside of the hospital and prevented from going to the hospital such as the case in the Imperial Valley um, where brian Tyson George Fareed have saved thousands and thousands of lives of indigenous Latinos that are coming across the border and work in the fields. I mean, they're they're breaking their backs to save the poor. Amazing story there with early treatments. Um, and I guess they're left alone because they're in the Imperial Valley, nobody cares. They're all poor. But in these urban environments, there's all these incentives for hospitals to treat covid patients. And if people are giving treatments that are keeping the people out of the hospitals, then they're not getting that revenue. So, your speculation if I just could unpack this, that doctor in Maui who was giving early treatment, you re you think that the reason why he was targeted because he was directly costing the hospital money because people weren't going in. I'm not saying I'm saying that the observation is that early treatment keeps people out of the hospital and that hospitals have financial incentives including death incentives, financial, encourage early treatment. And the and the other data point is these that are doing the attacking are almost universally hospital administrators and hospitalists. So they're these aren't physicians. These aren't by hospitalists. I mean, hospital based physicians. Okay, what does that mean then? What? Why are they doing it? Because they're part of that system of that hospital system, The administrators, They would be doing that because they're making they're making so, again, I don't want to make accusations. I'm observing facts. Um, I want to bring this back to something we were talking about earlier, but we kind of moved past it. We were talking about the one in 1000 statistics. So recent paper out of Hong kong comprehensive analysis, cardio uh, myocarditis in boys hospitalized. Okay, that makes sense. That's that's word string. So that's the data analysis. So that's, that's saying the myocarditis was so bad after vaccination. And these are all verified post vaccination. Myocarditis was so bad that you went to the hospital incidence rate is one in 2700. Now there's all kinds of hand waving. Oh, myocarditis is mild and they recover from it. Okay. Those statements aren't, let's say gently based in fact historic incidents of death post myocarditis is about 27%. Now the assertion is, well, this is a different kind of myocarditis and therefore it's not going to kill these kids or young adults. Okay. But that's being said in the absence of data. It's pure speculation. Right? And why are they doing that? Because they keep saying that that the the, the the instances of myocarditis are mild. I keep hearing that, that it's mild, mild card itis and that it eventually goes away, but not citing any studies. And I don't think there are any long term studies in Children that can't be right by definition, right? Right. Because because we haven't done what we have always done. People. Okay. So let me say this. People ask me robert. You're the inventor of this tech. You're a vaccine. Ologists. Why are you speaking out? This was the whole topic of the atlantic monthly attack article. You know, why is this person become a vaccine skeptic? The the did they talk to you extensively? And the three days before this thing came out, the journalist who's, it's a fascinating young man. He previously publishes basically on woke issues in the chronicle of higher education. This is his first big article. Okay. He was clearly hired and they explicitly say the article was funded by the robert Wood johnson foundation of the Zuckerberg chan initiative. Okay, robert wood johnson is the major shareholder in J and J. And Zuckerberg chan of course is facebook Okay, so facebook and Zuckerberg chan had funded this attack article by this guy that normally writes about wokeness in the Journal of Higher education and he was totally obsessed over this question, robert, why are you saying these things? You must have some financial incentive. There must be some reason why you're doing this. Did you meet with this man in person? No, just over the phone. Okay. And I told him repeatedly because it's the right thing to do. I get this. You know, this consternation. But see the thing is I think I may be the only one that has been involved deeply in the development of this tech that doesn't have a financial stake in it. Um, so for me the reason is because what's happening is not right. It's destroying my profession. It's destroying the practice of medicine worldwide is destroying public health and medicine. I'm a vaccine. Ologists. I've spent 30 years developing vaccine, a stupid amount of education, learning how to do it and what the rules are. And for me, I'm personally offended by watching my discipline get destroyed for no good reason at all, except apparently financial incentives and, and I don't know, political ass covering now back to this number because we keep going past it and going off on tangents. Uh, the number that keeps getting cited is one in 1000 people have adverse events including myocarditis. Um, if myocarditis that requires hospitalization is one in 2700 and boys and boys. But there's also issues of people that have something like fatigue that has lasted the vaccination. But I mean, there's a lot of those, like there's a huge number of dispensary and mental metro raja. What are those? This is alterations and menses in women. Oh, right. That's a huge issue. And they deny it. Menzies, we menstrual cycles. Um, women go into menopause very young. Like I know a girl who's 36 who's got the vaccine hasn't had her period in eight months and then there is the women who are postmenopausal that suddenly start bleeding. Yeah. So here's the thing about this joe that kind of ties this together. Um, I'm, I'm in the business. It's basically the part of what I do is like a detective um figuring out because I'm training pathology. Why is this happening? What are the things that connect these things? Okay. So what is it that drives menstruation? The answer is the ovary, the ovary? Is the controller okay Through through hormones and ovulation. Okay. What did we learn early on from the fighter data package? Which by the way, when that was disclosed by Byron bridal from japan and sent to me was the first thing that really lit me up and let me know that something here was rotten. Okay. And when I got that I picked out as Byrum had done, I was given the task of independently evaluating it. And then I took that package and I gave it to a more senior regulatory professional that I respect. And I said, these are the things I see. This looks really bad. He looked at it and said, oh you missed this thing. And the other thing. Okay, these are these missing things include reproductive toxicology. Um uh ah evaluations of heritage, ethnicity, birth defects, standard stuff that's always done geno toxicity not done. What was done was a cobbled together group of data that didn't even evolve the vaccine and used other M. RNAs in non GLP that's fancy talk for not done with rigor studies not done according to the rules. Um all cobbled together and sent into the regulatory agencies of the world to justify going ahead and giving jabs to everybody under emergency use authorization. That's the truth of it. That's the short version. That's you know, using common language. one of the studies they did do was administer these lipid RNA complexes to rodents and showed the distribution of the synthetic lipid component. That's the fats that package the RNA that let it slip into your cells. It's a synthetic chemical, positively charged molecule to fat with a charge on the end, it goes to the ovary At a very high rate, like 11 of the lipids. Now this wasn't supposed to happen, it was supposed to stay in the arm where it got jabbed. But it doesn't, it goes all over the body and once it goes to two places that are really kind of anomalous bone marrow and ovaries. Now the overhearing signal is really clear because it doesn't happen in testes now. So now you've got a molecule synthetic molecule going to an organ, the ovary, the controls menstruation in a non clinical model, a rodent. And subsequently it's deployed widely in humans and you have this phenomena of alteration and menstrual cycle. Now, one of the things that was fascinating. I was asked to testify to the Hasidic jewish rabbinical court in new york. Um a lot of interesting things happen with that. It's like sitting around with 15 different candles um as one of those bucket list things, I guess. Uh I'm talking to him. It turns out that the rabbis in the Hasidic jew community carefully monitor. We don't need to go into how uh the menstrual cycle of the fertile women in their congregations closely monitor it because there is strict guidance about cleanliness and intercourse. And they had a major problem Because they are all 60 plus up to 80 long beards right here. That had exquisite understanding about the menstrual cycle and all the women in their congregations and they all knew that these menstrual cycles were being disrupted all the time. And for them, this was a major crisis because it meant that if you're if you're in the Hasidic community, increasing the size of the population of Hasidic jews is kind of important to you. Um it's essentially important to them and this was a major threat to reproductive health in their communities. Now. They took all this testimony, they thought about it and they came out with a clear statement that Children should not be vaccinated. This has the power of law in this community should not be vaccinated in adults is strongly discouraged. And part of the reason is because of these alterations in reproduction. Um, and again, the point, what's the common variable is the ovary? This is why I say in my little statement that's gone all over the world, This little four minute clip that's kind of gone viral and triggered governments to attack me now like Israel in Spain and Italy in the same systematic pattern of, you know, um trying to demean me and delegitimize me. But um that's why I say in that that that think twice about giving these jabs to your kids, among other things. Your your girls are born with all the eggs they will ever have. And these lipids are going to the ovaries and they appear to be affecting menstruation in some way, but menstruation is just one of these adverse events. You picked out some of the other ones, the fatigue brain fog, all kinds of things. And to be fair, people get that from Covid as well. True, absolutely true. And that's another fascinating variable is we have Covid, we have M. RNA genetic vaccines and we have D. N. A virus administered genetic vaccines. That's the J. And J. Here in the United States. Adenovirus. Okay. And they all have these symptoms of clotting brain fog and other things. Okay. And so as you know, this is basically does it walk like a duck and quack like a duck. What is the common variable between those three very different systems? Natural viral infection, M. RNA genetic vaccines and D. N. A genetic vaccines. Now we don't see these problems by the way. Adenovirus vectored vaccines have been in development for My entire life 30 years. They're licensed had no viral vector vaccines. They don't have these problems. Okay, so it's something that's not intrinsic to the platform. What is it? The common variable is Spike just to cut to the chase. And so the spike protein is probably causing all these problems with people who have caught covid and also people who are getting the vaccine. But then the lipo what is it like? Oh, nano particles, particles that term. How do you say it? Little, I call them little plexus um lipid nanoparticles is another lipid nanoparticles. So these are the ones that are affecting the ovaries. No it's the it's the lipid part of it in particular that goes to the ovaries, not the RNA and that that aspect of it is not affecting men but with many of a higher instance of myocarditis and why is that? Good question, what is driving the myocarditis? So there's a couple. There are a variety of hypotheses about this. What we do know is that both the virus and these vaccines are associated with. Here's another fancy medical term micro coagulation or micro kogelo empathy. The latter one being um a disease of micro coagulation. Small blood clots. Okay, there are multiple ways in which that can happen. It's clear that Spike is associated with a variety of mechanisms that caught the trigger coagulation including an auto immune one. Okay, so there's something about this this protein, Spike is whether it's in the vaccine or not, it binds to the surface of key cells through a key regulatory Protein called Ace two. Ace two is involved in controlling blood pressure vessel blood vessel tone, all kinds of stuff. If you activate a stew on the little tiny smooth muscle cells that wrap around your capillaries, the control your vascular tone. That's that's your blood pressure locally. Okay. Ability of blood to go through those tubes. Okay. That's controlled basically. You've got these little muscles cells, cellular muscles that control the contraction. It's kind of like peristalsis if you know what that is the kind of process that can move something down a tube like in our gut. Um You know the way we move food and waste material through our gut and eventually excreted. That's peristalsis the thing that brings it down through our esophagus. Same thing happens with your blood vessels and when Ace Two fires off, when it gets activated it causes contraction of parasites and blocks these micro vessels. And if you get stagnant blood in blood vessels, it clots like that, that's what it does. Okay, it's a normal home ecstatic mechanisms. So there's that there's the whole cast. So there's there's the effects on the local tissue and there is direct effects triggering coagulation through a number of pathways. Now what can cause myocardial itis pericarditis, a number of things. Autoimmune processes which we also know are involved in some of the coagulation problems and this kind of process of clamping down on blood vessels um which we know is happening and the audio immune responses. This also in response to spike protein like what is what is causing the auto immune response in people. It's observed that it is happening and it's happening with these um RNA vaccines. Um it's happening with the adenovirus vectored vaccines. I don't know, I don't recall literature that it's happening with the virus itself, but it may very well be, I know quite a few people that have had viral outbreaks post like things like shingles herpes outbreak. Now, that's another one. Okay, so now you're opening the park the compartment before we were talking about cardiac and blood vessels and we talked a little bit about the brain. We didn't talk about the strokes. We talked about the brain fog and it's known that Spike will open the blood brain barrier is this kind of concept. It's a little loose, but it has to do with the structure of the cells that line the blood vessels in your brain and what it allows to go through and doesn't go through. Spike causes that to become more like an open sieve so things can go in your brain that shouldn't go into your brain. So that can trigger brain inflammation. And that is one of the that is the risk that people like Luc Montagnier are concerned about with neuro february tangles, which and that's why they talk about prions or alzheimer's like symptoms, that's part of what happens when brain gets inflammation because it's got stuff going on in there that's not supposed to have. So hence the brain fog. The brain fog could be due to microvascular blockade. It could be due to this clamping of blood vessels that I was talking about. It could be due to leaky blood vessels. That's the blood brain barrier breaching. Hard to say, multifactorial. All we know is that it's happening and that's also something that's happening to people with Covid as well, correct. I've experienced it myself. Okay, when I had, when I wasn't sick um and not only brain fog um uh you can remember the broadcaster komo um when he had Covid, he was talking about seeing hallucinations. That is that is a common consequence of primary covid infection is not just brain fog, but overt hallucinations. Now, after the vaccines started to be administered, it was a couple of months later I believe that the Salk institute published their paper on spike proteins and I cited that in the Brett dark bret weinstein dark horse podcast and was immediately attacked by Reuters uh for spreading disinformation because I was speaking that the spike protein was a toxin. And there's actually, that's one of many papers that have come out since then or before. And I didn't say the spike protein on the vaccine. I said the spike protein and Reuters basically took my words twisted them and then attacked me about it is the spike protein in the vaccine different than the spike protein in the virus. The answer is yes. Um, in a way that matters is the question. Um so the difference is uh now we're going to get into molecular virology, I'm sorry, but you asked the question. Um so spike kind of, you can think of it as having a stem part and ahead group and then and then a right just these things sticking out here. Um but but I wanted to illustrate that it also has this little, it's like a catcher's glove that sits on top. That is the receptor binding domain. Okay, so it's got these these elements that are really important to understand it. And this um this part of the spike protein that is kind of straight and thin. The stock is responsible for the business, part of what spike does. Spike causes fusion between the virus and the cell. It's what enables the virus to infect the cell. And it's a complex set of events and it changes its structure as it goes through this. It's fascinating stuff. If you're into this, okay, you can lock it into the pre fusion confirmation. You can make it so that it will not trigger cell fusion after binding with two little tiny mutations substituting praline in the S two domain and that'll make it so that it can never trigger fusion. Which is one of the things that it can do to bake toxicity That has nothing to do with whether or not it combined days to appear whether or not the catcher's Mitt will grab on days two by the way. Spike exists as a trimmer, like a trouble folk, you know on a, on a fishing lure. Um, so uh, So these two mutations are in this um S2 domain that's kind of the stem and it makes it so that it can't fuse and that's what's in the vaccine. But the rest of the spike is the natural spike. And yes, it does get cut off and it does go into circulation. That's all been proven. And so what matters about that is all the things I've been talking about about Spike interacting with ace two and turning on a stew that can all still happen. None of that's changed now. One of the attacks that's made against my staying this is oh no, they engineered spike so that it's nontoxic. Okay. That fails to tests number one at the time they did this engineering. I've carefully reviewed the papers. Okay. It's all about making it more immunogen IQ. There is nothing in there about making it less toxic. Okay. Um, and by definition it will make it less toxic as a fusion fusion protein but it won't do anything about it. The other parts of of spike and its activities then then there is this fundamental logic flaw in clinical development and non clinical development and safety and pharmacology. I like to say the french judicial system applies. What that is is you're guilty until proven innocent. Um it's the job of the pharmaceutical companies to prove that their engineered spike is safe. They never did that. And so all of this, the pressure that comes back, you know, from folks like me saying, hey, this isn't right. Okay. And it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck. It's probably toxic because it's the common variable. I get criticized because oh well, you know, we'll prove that it's not safe. I'm sorry. That's not the way it works. It's a farmer's job to prove that it is safe. Not my job to prove that it's not safe. I'm observing this safety signal. The safety signal is there it is associated with vectors that express spike, whether it's the vaccine, the virus or the adenovirus, you know the M. RNA virus, the virus itself or the adenovirus vectored spike, those toxicities are there. Um and the common variable is the spike protein. So you know, and then then the com comment, well it's not a toxin. I'm kind of in the forest gump school of toxicity, you know, if it causes toxicity it is right. Um uh it is a toxin. By definition it is you know, the toxin is as a toxin does. And um uh you know, we can argue about the meaning of toxin. Just like so much of the rest of our language has been perverted during this. But the simple explanation. You know, the simple definition is doesn't cause toxicity in people. I think the answer is pretty clear now. It does. The question that we're all arguing about is how often and how bad this is the question. So why do so many people take the vaccine and have no adverse effects at all? Great question. And that is a normal situation in any drug. Um, we talked about bell curves. There's a response curve. Humans are genetically complex and they're fanatically complex. I am not a judicial, judicial, judicial, judicial uh, champion, right. Um, uh, I am not the same Body mass index as I was when I was 25. It seems that um, the common factor across many people that get both the vaccine, adverse events and the disease and by the way, is a great paper out that tried to dissect Long covid and differentiate it from post vaccination syndrome, which is what we're talking about. And they did statistical analysis large cohort of patients, basically, they're indistinguishable, long covid and post vaccination syndrome. In terms of the spectrum of the syndrome, there incidents that kind of stuff. They're indistinguishable, do the same thing. Um, so why one of the factors that seems to be common is this kind of um, hyper glycemic index people that are not necessarily diabetic, but they may be prediabetic or they have problems with carbohydrate metabolism where they're eating too many sugars or whatever the thing is. So they've got elevated hemoglobin a one c etcetera. People that have high glycemic index indices seem to be particularly susceptible to these effects. Now that is a syndrome associated with an inflammatory state and blood vessels. So you know this what you're asking again and again um because you are who you are is in plain language, the big, you know, picture issues that are sitting out there that haven't been adequately addressed. Not only haven't been adequately addressed, but when you do address them you get demonized. Even if you're just asking questions as far as like what are the numbers? What is the data? Where can I see this data? If you're an academic, you get run out now. Now we've talked I don't want to avoid, you talked about some of the other adverse events and you started talking about um the ones that relate to immune response and um that is the tip of the iceberg that most people are familiar with is the common CDC never talks about it. But it's clearly there in the literature, you know in places, even New England Journal of Medicine, it's clearly there in the various database is latent virus reactivation and the most obvious one is shingles. I mean if you get shingles, I've had shingles it hurts. You don't you don't miss it when you get it. But Epstein Barr virus, other herpes viruses, cytomegalovirus. What are these all in common their DNA latent DNA viruses. Okay, so so what latent DNA viruses? Well we have a bunch of DNA viruses that basically hide inside our body and they are kept suppressed. A matter of fact there's a whole thread in vaccine ology. We talk about immuno sin essence the aging of the immune system. Part of that has to do with the thymus and it's shrinking. That's what educates T cells by the way. That's one of the reasons why Children basically shrugged this disease off is they haven't had that dynamic evolution. But one of the things that happens is your T cells become increasingly focused on suppressing the D. N. A. Viruses that we've all been parasitic. Ized by um like cytomegalovirus And so you can watch over time the diversity of T cells and person's body who's infected by C. M. V. Over time. As they get older and older their T cells get more and more and more focused on just trying to keep cmd in the box and not let it out. Okay so when we see D. N. A. Viruses you know Pandora's box is opening and they're jumping out of there. Okay well the thing that keeps Pandora's box closed is T cell responses and then we have you know I hope someday you get a chance to have Ryan cole on pathologist deep understanding of this um as he points out he's seeing referrals from oncologists of cancers that are unusual. They're occurring early. They're behaving irregularly they're behaving very aggressively now right now. This is still anecdotal I don't want to get the audience all wound up? We're all going to die of cancer? No dr Malone is not saying we're all going to die of cancer. Okay. But um this is another of those little Os because the thing that keeps cancer suppressed is T cells. Then we have the laboratory data that um we're seeing abnormalities in the key signaling molecules that that T cells used to talk to each other toll like receptors um that are associated in particular with the M. RNA vaccines. So something is happening okay, that is causing release of T cell suppression, reactivation of latent DNA viruses. Maybe some signals relating to oncology. Um Some changes in t cell signaling behavior. And then there's this this increasing awareness that there's some window of time. Not sure how long after vaccination, when you're actually more susceptible to infection. Um And this may have something to do. So not only is the vaccine efficacy waning, but the multiple jabs strategy is actually creating more and more windows where people have this period of T cell suppression. So there's a whole lot in this box of immunology. And what are the jabs doing to our immune system? And how long does it last? That is, let's say gently a little worrisome to some of us that have a background in these things. This T cell suppression. Are are there any studies on the amount of time that it takes before your your system Rebalances itself, post jab. Is it a cumulative like if you're dealing with three shots or four shots? That's this is this is the I'm sorry, this is the obscenity for me of this whole, well, we're going to give four shots because we don't really know, but we know we need to do something. I like to talk about the metaphor as a father. I don't know if you've had kids. I'm a grandfather. Okay. Um, you give a three year old a hammer and everything becomes a nail. Okay. That's that's kind of a simple way of saying people that aren't well trained given a powerful technology or tool will abuse it and overuse it. In this case, there's multiple reasons not to do the multiple jabs. The simplest one for everybody to understand is when your son developed seasonal allergies to ragweed pollen or whatever. And it's so bad that he can't go to school, His eyes are running, he can't play in sports or whatever. You're like, oh, we gotta do something about this. I'm going to take him to a rheumatologist immunologist and see what they can do. Well, they do a bunch of tests and they say, oh, your son is allergic to ragweed pollen or whatever. The thing is. Okay, what do they do? Well, they give him shots. What are those shots? They're high doses of antigen that are administered repeatedly to your child and what it does is induces something that is immunologist we call high zone tolerance? Um I zone tolerance basically amounts to an ability by giving multiple injections at high levels of antigen to shut down T cells against in an antigen specific fashion. So there's that the other thing with the multiple jabs is that these are multiple jabs that are mismatched. Okay, they don't can I pause for a second before you continue? So you're saying that by like if someone is allergic to things and they go to an allergist and they start getting shots, those shots shut down T cell response. So those shots by doing so and shutting down T cell response. The idea is that it kicks your immune system in and it's supposed to fight off these things. Does it make you more vulnerable to other diseases? Because they're using that antigen? Okay. The ragweed pollen, it's causing deletion or down regulation of the team memory population responsible for responding to ragweed pollen. So what it's doing is selectively shutting down the T response against that antigen. And but what about everything else? No. Generally not. No. I won't say it won't affect it but the effect on the overall immune response is negligible in that this is done clinically routinely. Okay, so there's there's those two things there's this short term issue. We don't know how long it lasts. There's the high zone tolerance issue. And then there is with the multiple jabs that are mismatched for the current circulating virus that's akin to repeatedly taking a flu vaccine from two seasons ago and hoping it's going to protect against this flu. Well, that's one of the most confusing things about this push for people to get boosted now with a Macron because they keep saying with a macron, we need to get But that's a vaccine escape variant, isn't it? Yeah. Among other things. So that when do you want to open that can of Well, I want to know what we know so far is uh at least Peter McCullough said this and I believe several other people have said this as well that the immunity that you may have had to the alpha variant of the delta variant. It does not seem to work very well against a micron. That's true. Nor does the immunity imparted by vaccines by the way. Since we're down this little rabbit hole, Let me just say one thing Peter called me and he said robert, make sure you talk to joe and make it clear that although I spoke clearly and forcefully about one and done when I was on his show that was before a Macron. And so Peter wanted me to make sure that your audience knew. No, yes, we we've actually talked about that because I have several friends right now that have tested positive for Covid for a second time. And that is post that podcast with him. He was pretty sure that if you've got Delta, you would never get it again. But I know people that have had not honestly I don't know anybody who had Delta which was the last phase. I know people who had the original version of Covid who have now gotten a micron and in my case I had the original Wuhan strain and I got infected with Delta and I had disease for about three days and that's after taking to the two jabs. So so yeah. And then how far after taking the two jabs? Was it about four months, four months. So that's still inside the window of efficacy. That window of efficacy seems to keep shrinking. Yeah. Well that's another thing that is another things. And and that the when you were vaccinated post your infection, how long after your infection were you vaccinated? So you're infected by COVID early on February 99 months. Okay. But you still had a horrible reaction to it. And then even that this is pure speculation. Um the waning efficacy of the vaccine. Does that have an effect on your natural immunity? The natural immunity that you've had. So you're now opening up the big big um can of whip. Is that a D but 80. So that's a whole another rabbit hole. And I like to call it vaccine enhanced infection or disease because 80 is just one subset of that. But there is signs in some data. And we were we were talking about this just before the broadcast um uh from Denmark among other places of negative efficacy against. Oh Macron As a function of the number of vaccinations. Up to three. So um negative efficacy, positive efficacy means it protects you. Negative efficacy means your probability of being infected is higher if you've taken the vaccine and it's compared to unvaccinated, it seems to be somewhat higher if you had one job, even worse, even more likely to get infected. If you've had two jabs even more. In fact likely to get infected. If you had three jabs now don't jump straight to A. T. E. Because the problem just to illustrate this confounding variable problem, which is what all the statisticians argue about endlessly. Um is that there's all kinds of things that can complicate this interpretation. I'm going to give you the simple one. If somebody feels that they are fully vax and they're living, you know, they're young person in Denmark or whatever in europe, okay, they're more likely to go engage in risky behaviors such as maybe they're gonna go out clubbing. Whereas before they may have said no, I'm not gonna go out clubbing you crazy. Now they feel like they're superman, they've got a shield and so they engage in more risky behaviors and so there's an example of a confounding variable one of many. So that's the that's what I want to caution that I'm not saying that this shows that we're having vaccine enhanced infection. I'm saying that this is a risk which the FDA knew about explicitly identified, told the vaccine manufacturers they should set up studies to detect whether or not it's happening. But didn't force them to do it. This is another one of the huge FDA fails here. They had the right and responsibility to ensure that we had good data about this. And they took a pass. They said vaccine manufacturer, we think you should do this. But you know, it's optional. And so they never did it. No surprise. Um, that's like first rule of clinical development when you're in big pharma, you never ask a question that you don't want to know the answer to unless you're absolutely forced to do it. That's why the FDA is supposed to do its job. But in this case with enhanced disease, a known risk of all prior coronavirus vaccine development efforts including veterinary, um, chronic complications with those efforts. Um, the reason why I focused on drug repurposing instead of vaccine development at the start of the outbreak. When I got the But for Michael Callahan, I said, hmm. Past history A. D. E. Hmm. This is going to take a long time. We're gonna need drugs best way we can get drugs as drug repurposing. Yeah. And then I got my team to focus on that. That's why we did that. Um, so FDA is known that this is a risk. All the vaccine. Ologists. No, it's a risk. It's in the literature. Um, we've all been kind of watching carefully. So I have um is this risk in a manifest? Can I pause you for a second when you're saying statistically it seems that one jab makes you more likely to get all micron than unvaccinated. Two jabs even more. So three jabs more. So where is this data? It's coming. It's a series of analyses. There's a really active group of bio statisticians worldwide. And are you now that are picking apart the primary data that's coming out? There was a paper that was published um from uh the Netherlands as I recall um that had or or it was a publication from official publication by the government that had the primary data. And then this primary data has been analyzed reanalyzed, discussed on substack blah blah blah torn apart and rebuilt. Now we put out a substack statement that summarizes some of this that you can easily find from us. But it's an ongoing debate. But the the effect size is now. Now what the statisticians are arguing about is, well whether or not they had the right number for the denominator of total cases. This gets back to my point that the databases are all contaminated because the incidence of the virus in the population is a function of testing? Um in other words, you don't look for it. You don't see it then you assume you're not having it. Right. And in the Netherlands, they have one of the best testing systems. So they have rigorously testing everybody for whether or not they're getting the virus. And so those numbers are a little, you know, Sketchy and that's what everybody's arguing about is is should we be looking at only the 12 and above cohort? You know, it's all this is, but the effect size is so large that it's we can we can argue about these confounding variables until the cows come home, but it's a big effect. Um, it's gonna be hard to account for other ways. It is not in peer reviewed publications. This kind of stuff is wicked hard to publish these days and it takes months. So would the assumption be that there's something that's happening to people that are vaccinated, where it makes them more susceptible to this particular strain of covid? Because this particular strain of Covid, this a micron is a vaccine escape variant, meaning that it's sort of tried to find its way around the protection of the vaccine. So now you're selected for that. So now you're trying to impose a high what you're doing is generating a hypothesis, um, which is good and one of many possible hypotheses. And so in a world of proper world where we are allowed to debate these things and do these kinds of studies and examine these kinds of variables without being right in social media. Um, we would have a very active discussion about this hypothesis and many others. Now that's my my way of not answering your question. I understand. Well is there a mechanism that would point to one of two things whether it is a decrease in immune response of a person who's been vaccinated or some opportunity. So so let me throw out so you just hit let me go down the rabbit hole of that first comment you made. Okay so what we're doing is with with administering a mismatched vaccine is we're driving the effect er and memory cells B and T towards a population that is focused on a virus that no longer exists. So it's not in in immune response you don't get everything. Um And with what I think you know you didn't ask me the question but I'm going to answer it anyhow. What is your hypotheses for the poor durability of the vaccines? My answer is it looks to me like original androgenic sin. Well that's kind of cool terminology. What that means. Let's unpack original androgenic sin. And I think what could be happening with these data as your just following your hypothesis you just shared consistent with that is that we're driving the immune response towards responding to an antigen. The receptor binding domain A spike did no longer exist with omicron. Um Now it it has become clear it was initially denied but it's become clear that all of us have a background immune response against beta coronavirus is these are naturally circulating cold corona viruses That have significant immunological cross reactivity with SARS Cov two. And the problem with that in original angiogenic sin is that those existing memory cells will dominate the immune response when you get infected and when you get vaccinated. Now let me unpack that in a way that kind of makes sense for the common person. We all know that um Well in war the the homily is we're always best prepared for the last war. Okay in your life you're the sum of your prior life experiences biases how you respond to. I mean in your martial arts you must know this right deeply. Um what you've experienced in the past and prior fights is gonna um bias how you respond to a new opponent. Okay same happens with your immune system. Does that make sense? Okay. Super. Okay you now understand original antigenics sin. Okay because the prior exposure of your immune system to an antigen that is closely related to a new and again you know if you are are are having martial art um um competition with a person of a certain ethnic background or physical characteristics or whatever and they have certain strategies that they use the next time you encounter somebody that looks like that and seems to move like that you're gonna say oh they're going to use the same kind of strategies your immune system acts the same way with viruses and it could be that they've they've got a whole different toolkit and you're busy fighting this war and they come in and boom, you're dead right? Um, same kind of thing. Okay, so we've got a new pathogen but it's got a series of of overlaps with the old ones that we've seen before and our immune system is biased to respond As if it's the old one. Now. To make matters worse, we're taking the spike protein, only one of the proteins, the dominant immunologically dominant protein. And we're jabbing everybody multiple times and driving memory cells and affect our cells that are to a virus that is not the one we're encountering. So it could very well be that as you're taking more jabs, you're further skewing your immune response in a way that's dysfunctional for infection to um uh oh, Macron compared to somebody that is immunologically naive, they only have presumably they've either recovered from an earlier because we gotta remember the baseline group. The non vaccinated group is actually complicated because it's got those that haven't had the virus before, but they've had beta coronavirus is and those that have had prior infection and are naturally immune. So that's you can appreciate that looking at these things kind of get squirrely, there's a lot of moving parts. But when you see a signal this strong, it's saying something's going on? You got to pay attention to it, in my opinion. What is the difference between the spike protein that's generated from the injection of the vaccine versus all of the variables that your body encounters when it's been infected by Covid. That is another brilliant question. I'm not saying this to butter you up. Um and thank you for asking him. So that's a, it was a very broad question. And um this is a peel the onions, onion layers um situation. I mean you said what are the differences? Let's start at a high level when you get infected or I get infected. It's typically nasal or oral pharynx. It's coming in through the mucosal membranes of your head. Okay. And by the way, that's one of the other things that's kind of cool about all macron in a good way is that the prior strains infect mostly deep lung. And there's really fascinating data from Hong kong suggesting that a macron is infecting upper airway more. That is a characteristic of less pathogenic influenza viruses. And hopefully what we know about a macron is even though it's more infectious and replicates the higher levels, it's less pathogenic. It's a paradox. Well, that could explain it. Okay, so there may be some good news in the omicron but getting back to your question when you take the jab, you get a, I don't know how a spike of spike you get a bolus a peak fairly rapidly of this viral protein and it's in your body and it's circulating in your blood? We know that there's a harvard study Brigham and woman's nurses? Um Spike protein circulation after vaccination? Can I pause you 11 2nd when you test for covid you go in through the nose. If someone is getting a micron, are they less likely to test positive because you're swabbing their nose? All of these are initially coming in here. So it's still would exist in the nose even though it's affecting the back of the throat. It seems to be well it's it's clearly producing equal or higher levels. Delta was significantly higher in the nose by pcr with all of the caveats about the problems with that cycle number. And um um Macron seems to be even higher, significantly higher. Okay, so hits your nose and then it goes down and it's affecting the throat for some reason. A lot of the people that I know that God a macron had a throat ache, a throat, a soreness of the throat before that is paradoxically really good news By the way, that's called primary data, anecdotal primary data. But it beats modeling data from the CDC which is what the New York Times has been reporting that we're all have by this point. We're all supposed to have 70 or 80% of all the virus in the United States is supposed to be on Macron. That is based on what is now known to be erroneous modeling and all of us that were inside when we saw this come out, we knew the group in the UK that did the modeling and we were like oh these guys have over promised they have basically put out scare modeling all the way through this outbreak and we should take this with a grain of salt. And now the press is all backpedaling and the CDC is backpedaling saying oh I think we got it wrong um and there's still a lot of delta in the population but you know your buddies if it's circulating here in in Austin and you're hearing people that are having more of the sore throat and runny nose and less of the my chest is burning and I've lost taste and smell. Right okay that's just to kind of open that up a little bit. Um With H one N 1 influenza. Just to take one example. We have high pathogenesis itty and low pathogenesis. The versions of H1N1. What that means is some of them will kill you and some of them won't. Um more or less. The difference seems to be the virus, the receptor, the nuances of the receptor that the virus is hitting and using to initially infect cells. And the the low pathogenesis et H one N one's infect the upper airway and the high pathogenesis I. E. H one N one has infected deep lung. The prior SARS Kobe ones have been hitting deep lung. Um so this report that you're giving me from your buddies that you think is probably on Macron is consistent with the Hong kong data and it all fits into a box. And we know from South Africa for sure that all Macron and where you know the W. H. O. Made the statement, there are no known deaths associated with Al Macron and you know in the world now there may be a couple somewhere. I thought it was just the United States. I didn't know they were saying for the world because there was, we just read something that said there was several that were associated. Now there's there's as I said Over time there will be deaths associated. Remember we talked about the difference between causal and association. Okay. And also the fact that 95% of the people who have died from COVID had an average of four comorbidities. You're on it. Um So uh and and now it's been documented at least two cases when they were reported deaths from a Macron and people actually went back, they got picked up in the Legacy media and circulated as oh my God it's gonna kill us again. More fear porn. Um Then people went again like they did with the Ivory Mactan story. Remember about the hospital? It was all full of ivermectin toxicity and then someone bothered to call the hospital same story. Sorry, nope, those weren't a Macron deaths just something that got reported and amplified in the Legacy media. So regardless the mortality of Omicron is remarkably low. I think we can all agree on that. It's essentially like a cold. That's the list of symptoms from a macron published in nature. I think recently Pretty much 100% overlap with common cold and there are Corona viruses that are common colds. That's the beta coronavirus is that I was talking about when I was talking about original energetic sense. So if you test positive for the common cold, do you test positive for a coronavirus? Like if you take a covid test, the common cold is a is a generally that's not. Um, no, it's it's a it's a grab bag of stuff. Okay. It's rhinoviruses. Its coronavirus is its influence uh, you know, it's a lot of things. Um, there's a lot of respiratory viruses that are floating around but getting back on on track with a micron. It is absolutely looking like a micron is a mild variant. It is absolutely able to escape prior vaccination. The control of prior vaccination. Typically with mismatched vaccine. Um, it seems to be also able to infect a subset of people that are naturally immune, probably less than the subset that get infected with vaccination. But, and this is a kind of a key message to your audience. The reproductive coefficient that's more fancy language. Um, the reproductive coefficient. But many of your audience is going to know that that's the are not They are not of the original strain, Wuhan Strain was about 2-3. That means that if I'm infected on average without any other interventions, I'll infect 2-3 other people. Okay. And for delta, the Arnott was more in the range of 5-6 if I'm infected, no vaccination, no social distancing, no masking, blah, blah, blah. The average rate of transmission would be, I would infect five or 6 people in the case of a macron, The are not the bass reproduction coefficient is in the range of 7-10. Okay, that is a wicked high. That is measles territory. What that means? I'm going to translate that into simple language. We are all going to get infected. Whether you use masks or not use social distancing or not unless you're going to go live on the trail and not talk to anybody when you pass them, you're going to get infected. So this gets to the key point. You know, find a dock that will administer early treatments. Um, and you know what they are and you just had the expert on, it's incredibly difficult to get the stuff. Now. That's what's incredible. And then as if that isn't bad enough, we've got the federal government monkeying around with availability of the monoclonal antibodies. That was the next thing I was going to ask you about, why would they do that? When what is the percentage of Delta versus a Macron out there. And how do we know? So here that I just alluded to that a minute ago and this is another fascinating story and it's kind of being covered up. It's starting to be covered by the press, but they're not going back to the cause. Okay. Remember I said that there was a group in the UK Imperial College didn't give the specifics specifics before, but there's a group in the UK that does modeling and they came out with some modeling projections that basically the entire UK hospital system was going to be inundated with uh macron shortly, basically christmas time. And a lot of us looked at that and went, yeah, those are the same guys that have predicted that we're going to have, you know, millions and millions and millions of dead and they're gonna be bodies stacked up and you know, coolers in the UK. Um, and uh, it sure looks like they may have overshot again the CDC, it seems to have taken those modeling projections and those models and they put out remember in mid december right before christmas, merry christmas, oh, you're all gonna get infected by Covid and it's going to sweep through and we're going to have 80% of Covid by this time of this month. Well, how about that ridiculous press release from the White House that said, we're the winner of the unvaccinated death, you know, experienced a winner of death and the overwhelming hospitalizations. All I can say is that the political genius behind that should be taken out in the behind in the wood shed and given a good whipping. Um Because that was just horrible political messaging and horrible and in the terms in terms of a micron so inaccurate. Um But it doesn't matter and that's that's that's the core thing of this chronic angst of of what the heck is going on. This doesn't make any sense at all. Um. Mhm. You know I don't want to get too off your topic. But um our government is out of control on this and they are lawless. They completely disregard bioethics, They completely disregard the federal common rule. They have broken all the rules that I know of that I've been trained on for years and years and years. These mandates of an experimental vaccine are explicitly illegal. They are explicitly inconsistent with the Nuremberg code. They're explicitly inconsistent with the Belmont report. They are flat out illegal and they don't care. And the only thing standing between us and it's too late for many of our colleagues including my you know the unfortunate colleagues in the D. O. D. Um Hopefully we're going to be able to stop them before they take our kids. What what's wrong? What do you mean by the D. O. D. The mandated vaccines mandated for everyone in the D. O. D. Um So uh you know what's going on in the White house is a whole another hour's talk. Yeah I'm sure it is. Um Back to Omicron and Delta. How do we know like what when you get tested like when I was tested and I came out positive for Covid, I have no idea what I got. I assume it was Delta because that's what I had heard was going around. But when they released these numbers, where are they getting that data from? So in terms of this specific one, I'm sorry I got off track. So I was talking about the Imperial College modeling and the CDC seem to have picked up on that and the last data they had, it's actually um peter that sent me the data. We did a podcast about it. Um uh um So he sent me the the modeling data and and he sent me um the documentation that the modeling data that the CDC was putting out in the new york times and the personal amplified, you know, and we all said oh we're gonna have 70 or 80% on macron in the population by this time of this year. Um The only actual data they had was up to about december 4th as I recall and it showed only a tiny fraction of all macron the population. But then they applied their mathematical models that they apparently got from Imperial College and they said oh the curve is going to look like this And therefore that's where we're going to be at this point in time and therefore we're going to have 70% infection. And the press all picked it up and they just assumed that that was based on real data. Not modeled data. Okay. What I'm hearing from docs in the field again and again and you know, I had a bunch of people call me before I came on your show. Everybody was like robert say this to joe. Um but uh you know, you're so important that everybody wants to get their angle in. Um but what I'm hearing in the field is that Delta is still dominant and these are hospitalists and and people treating disease and so they're seeing a skewed population. But it's important to remember that when the CDC says those kinds of numbers they're talking about incidents, that is that is the moment, you know how many have actually been infected at that slice of time. But what you see in the hospitals and this is something that Preston misses all the time. So they do like you're hearing all this fear porn about how the hospitals have filled up in new york city and blah blah blah blah blah. Okay. Um omicron causes a short term limited illness. Delta is wicked bad and it puts you in the hospital when it puts you in the hospital, you can be there for a month or two months. Okay. What you're seeing in hospitalized cases right now appears to be dominantly Delta because the CDC overestimated the fraction of the population that was, they overestimated how aggressively all Macron was going to move into the U. S. Population. Maybe that means our social distancing and masking is working. I don't know but it's not moving in as fast as they have been projecting and the bulk of the disease that the docks that I'm talking to are seeing in hospitals appears to be Delta. Wouldn't that be because the people that are catching delta are the ones that need to be hospitalized as the people that are catching a micron. But here's the rub and you. I'm looping back now to your antibody point. Okay is the geniuses in our public health system? I said oh no. Oh Macron based on this modeling data is going to be moving into the population is going to dominate things. We need to pull the monoclonal. Is that our delta specific and only administer only allow people to use the monoclonal. Is that our omicron specific? Because it's going to drive further evolution. Otherwise I guess that's their logic but I haven't heard that logic at all. All I've heard is that the monoclonal antibodies are ineffective against Macron But I've never seen you're saying the same thing. I've also but I've never seen any data that the monoclonal. Our data that is that is that it's in peer reviewed literature now that it's ineffective against democrat I wouldn't say ineffective Less effective based on laboratory neutralization assays. So in vitro correct? Okay. Okay so um you know joe Lombardo Lombardo. Um certain general in the state of florida has put out public statements now on I think it's twitter among other things um saying decrying what the federal government has done of pulling all of the regular monoclonal. What I'm hearing from frontline docs is those those you know older Regeneron monoclonal etcetera are still very effective in their hospitalized population presumably because it's still predominantly delta and yet they're no longer able to get it. So the government has literally stopped the distribution of medicine, effective medicine for a disease that exists currently. When has that ever happened before? hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. Yeah but in this level where like hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin were off label uses this is something that has emergency use authorization. This is wild. It is. Are they brain dead? Are they trying to just encourage vaccination, vaccination? Is that what all it is. Is this a money grab? What is that? So here's another um version. I mean there's when you see this kind of decoupling of public policy from logic then it causes thinking people like yourself to say what the hell is going on here? Right um and then we go down the rabbit hole is that this that or the other thing. one of the things in that spectrum of what's going on is that the emergency use authorizations are predicated on um policy determinations that we're in a state of emergency. Those are now two years old. They're expiring there. There is, I'm not saying this is what's going on in their head? But there is another perverse incentive here to amplify the fear porn and to amplify if you buy into the hypothesis that for some reason there are incentives for the government to maintain the state of emergency. Um That is one explanation given that those declarations are expiring and will have to be re implemented if because if they're not then all of this emergency use authorization vanishes like dust. So are you saying, are you implying that perhaps one of the reasons why they're removing monoclonal antibodies is too enhance the amount of people that are sick? I'm saying it is in the spectrum of the range of possible. Just the same as the withholding of early treatments is inexplicable and this is inexplicable in that we know that they're very effective. I have personal evidence that they're very effective. They were they were great on me the fact that they're removing this and that you would even consider that the reason why they're doing it is to extend the emergency use authorization for political reasons is that's insane. That's terrifying. It's it's hard for me to reconcile the behavior of the government in its public health decisions with the data and I'm I'm it's it's It's like there's two bins, is it incompetence or is it malevolence malevolence since are are they is it, is is there some ulterior political motive or they just if if there's some political motive, if that's written anywhere, someone's going to jail. I mean, if that if that comes out, if that's somehow another gets leaked, jesus fucking christ, that's scary that Well, there's there's, you know, um, so I wish it was so, I wish it was so too, I'm saying that and I might be completely wrong. I made me totally naive. But the lab like the, you know, the for me, the disclosure of emails that Cliff Lane, Tony Fauci and Francis Collins actively conspired to destroy any discussion of the appropriateness of lockdown strategies. And in the mainstream press hardly covers it. And there are no, there are no consequences, the document trail having to do with a gain of function research and the implication of and by the way, did tre in that, um, having absolutely no consequences for anybody. Um, we're in an environment in which truth and consequences are fungible. They this is modern media management and warfare. The truth is what the those that are managing the trusted news initiative say it is that is wild. And uh, for me personally, it's so confusing that I find myself in a situation where I feel compelled to have people like you on because I don't know where else this is going to get out. I don't. So, so, um thank you on, on behalf of, you know, in my case, I'm the president of The International Alliance of Physicians and scientists were over 16,000 people from all over the world physicians and scientists. And you can find our website at www dot global covid summit dot org. Um We are gobsmacked about what's going on and we are shut down censored, demeaned, fill in the blank all over the world. And over a period of two years the world's completely changed in that regard. And um they're taking our licenses and uh licensed to practice medicine because we are speaking about these matters and you can label me However you want to label me, I don't care. I've done what I've done in my career. I'm at a stage at 62 years old. I've got a farm. It's almost paid off. I raise horses. I love my wife. You know, I've been married a long time. My kids are both married. I've got grandkids, you know, I don't need this. Um I'm, there's this claim I'm doing all this because I seek attention. Trust me, this is not a fun thing to be doing at this stage. Physicians at F. L. C. C. C in senior positions, highly peter McCullough people at the at the culmination of exceptional careers, paul Merrick um an exceptional physician by any standards run out of his hospital demeaned destroyed, actively attacked trying to take his license. This is this medicine is being destroyed globally. People are losing faith in the whole system. They're losing faith in the scientific enterprise. They're losing faith in our government. They're losing faith in the vaccine enterprise. I mean, what is it gonna be the long term consequences of public health when you have a large fraction of the population who wasn't anti-vaxxer, that pejorative before that are now saying, oh my God, if this is how these people make decisions, I don't want anything to do with it, I certainly don't want to jab into my kid. Well, that's one of the more disturbing things. That the opposite of that is one of the more disturbing things about this pandemic is how people have just decided because they're scared and because they want a solution that the pharmaceutical companies have their best interests at heart and that they're not these machines that are designed to make money and they they sell drugs and the drugs are often beneficial. But their main goal is to make money. And if they can fudge the data, if they can move the numbers around, if they can delete negative consequences. Fizer is one of the most criminal pharmaceutical organizations in the world based on their past legal history and fines. What do those fines include bribing physicians. Okay, it is a cost benefit analysis in the pharmaceutical industry about misbehavior. They are not grounded in the ethical principles that you and I as average people believe in. They don't live in that world as you appropriately point out, they are about profit, return on investment and furthermore, the overlords that own them. Blackrock vanguard state Street, etcetera. These large, massive funds that are completely decoupled from Nation states have no moral core, they have no moral purpose, their only purpose is return on investment. And that is the core problem here. That and the fact that we as a society have become grossly fragmented through social media, electronic appliances, the stress of what we've experienced. And this leads into this whole issue of mass formation psychosis that Matthias Desmond at the University of Ghent has promoted that for many of us when Matthias, a you know, psychologist and statistician, interesting combination came made public a lot of us as we listened to Mathias, we said, oh that makes sense. And that was like the brain that what happened when I encountered the trusted news initiative. I said, oh you don't know if you saw the bret weinstein podcast with me and steve kirsch um where that lit this whole fire all over the world bret ends with the, with the basically the question if you listen to the long version um of what's how does this happen? How how do we have this emergent phenomena? The how question, Right. And you know, behind the how question is the why question? Um that the the how question of a third of the population basically being hypnotized and totally wrapped up in whatever Tony Fauci in the mainstream media feeds them whatever CNN tells them is true. Um let me illustrate that the other day, I was looking through new york times, recent articles about a macron and pediatrics in preparation for this and for making some slide shows and and I saw this headline in the new york Times um epidemiologist and a vaccine, ologists and the and the title was how you should think about Children and a macron. It was, it was blatantly saying this is how you should think. We're going to tell you how to think, okay, people kind of got to get that in their head, that's the world we're in right now. Now, what Matthias Desmond has has shared with us, brilliant insight is another one of those aha Now, that part makes sense, which is that this comes from basically european intellectual inquiry into what the heck happened in Germany In the 20s and 30s, you know, very intelligent, highly educated population and they went barking mad and how did that happen? Um The answer is mass formation psychosis when you have a society that has become decoupled from each other and has free floating anxiety in a sense that things don't make sense, We can't understand it and then their attention gets focused by a leader or a series of events. On one small point, just like hypnosis, the literally become hypnotized and can be lead anywhere. And one of the aspects of that phenomenon is the people that they identify as their leaders, the ones typically that come in and say you have this pain and I can solve it for you, I and I alone, okay, I can fix this problem for you. Okay, then they will lead, they will follow that person through. It doesn't matter whether they lie to him or whatever. The data are irrelevant. And furthermore, anybody who questions that narrative is to be immediately attacked. They are the other this is central to mass formation psychosis and this is what has happened. We had all those conditions. If you remember back before 2019, everybody was complaining, the world doesn't make sense, Blah Blah Blah. Um and we're all isolated from each other. We're all on our little tools. We're not connected socially anymore except through social media. Um and then this thing happened and everybody focused on it. That is how mass formation psychosis happens and that is what's happened here now there's ways to get out of it. Um Matthias recommendation is you've got to get people to realize that what we've got is a situation of global totalitarianism in his experience in europe, making people realize is a bigger threat than the virus can cause a separation psychologically in this fusion, this hypnosis that has happened. The problem is then you're just substituting a bigger boogeyman from the current one and somebody else can come in and manipulate that, the real problem and it gets back to your core point. We're sick as a society and we have to heal ourselves and one of the things we have to do is come together we have to recreate our social bonds. We have to buy into integrity. The importance of human dignity and the importance of community. That's how we get out of this. And I think that this insight of Matthias Desmond is really central to kind of making sense out of all of this crazy. We got a world in which the press is incentivized to push a storyline because they're all controlled by the same large funds that fighter is and so is tech. I don't know how we're going to get out of it, but it's got to start with us, all of us finding common ground. I think one way we're gonna get out of it is by realizing what it is and by the way you just explained it in the way Peter McCullough explained it and he was on the podcast as well. This mass formation psychosis that we're currently experiencing. Most people are unaware that's even happening all these events take place. And it's this perfect storm of the social media aspect of it. The, the, the fact that we are disconnected the the covid the separation, the isolation from society. The lockdowns also coming off of the four years of trump where we're so polarized politically and this, it's become very not just common but accepted to other people to to point at those, the others, whether it's the republicans or the democrats or the independents whatever you choose, whatever you choose to make, the unvaccinated that was I was going to get to. Yeah, and that's one of the things that I find very bizarre about the tribal aspect of this is that people want me to get vaccinated and like my friends who have been vaccinated, want me to join the team. Like go ahead, get the tattoo. Like, what are you saying? And I'm like, I've gone through the virus, I have immunity. I also have antibodies. I just checked them last week. Like I could show you the test, a matter of fact, I have it right here. There it is. And I had to be tested when I came in the front door at your shop here. Yeah, we test everybody. But the point being is that doesn't make any sense for me to get vaccinated, but they want me to join, It's worse than that. It puts you at higher risk. Yes. Okay. They're asking you to take more risk for your health in order to join their club. That's what it is and that's what it is. And it's a, it's a tribal formation and it's people who don't have personal sovereignty and people who aren't confident with standing by their own thoughts and objectively analyzing things outside of uh, an ideology outside of the tribe. Those people are very susceptible right now and those are more common than not. So joe um again, this is not me buttering you up. But this is, this is why you're providing such a service to your country and humanity because you're one of the few voices that has an audience that is not democrat or republican or black or white or vaccinated or unvaccinated. All these disciples that we create are officially and you are trying to speak to that persuadable middle and and do so with with an open heart um in an open mind and in a world in which all of the information is being so carefully manipulated and so pervasively distorted and and I I'm grateful, sincerely, my colleagues are grateful um and and I think the world should be grateful for your leadership. Well I'm very grateful that there's courageous people like yourself that do put your reputations and your career's on the line by speaking out against the stuff when it is very difficult and when you do get deep platform for doing that, they know that by censoring you, they're not just censoring you, they're also making others like you self censor, Ive been self censoring for months. I mean every morning when we post on twitter, my wife and I Jill Glasgow Malone PhD, right, have this active dialogue. Um can we post this not, you know, how do we say this? So we're not going to get the platform and blah blah blah blah blah, we're constantly self censoring and it's crazy because you're self censoring about your area of expertise, which is insane because the people are censoring you don't have any education in it. It's it yes, I agree. It's insane. It's the world we're in. Um I'm just hoping that that clip what you explained this mass formation psychosis makes the rounds and uh I think everything you've laid out today was about as clear and as rational and as well documented as I could have hoped and more. Um So thank you very much for being here. Thank you very much for everything that you've done and jesus christ twitter, put the fucking guy back on. It's it's okay, you know, so you do martial arts and so you get the idea of using your opponent's energy against him. Okay. Um I was immediately contacted by multiple lawyers. Um Sure, this this could be an excellent example case, I think it is between you and al experiencing who's already filed one. Okay. Um I've I've been through the legal grind. I don't want to sue anybody frankly, but is it just sucks the blood out of you? Um Not to mention your financial resources. I mean it's just an ugly process. I hate it, but um there's two hills that are willing, I'm willing to die on. one is stopping the Jabs and the Children and one is, you know, resisting the erosion of free speech, which is the fundamental principle on which our democracy in our society civilized Western culture is built on? I like to say when I give rallies, do you remember back a couple of years ago when you felt sorry for the people and the people's Republic of china because their internet was filtered, they weren't allowed free speech. Their government told them what to do and think, Okay, now here we are. Okay. And the next thing that we all feel sorry about social credit system. Okay, wake up folks, wake up. It's coming. If we give in to this were given the vaccine, passports and having an app on your phone that shows everything you're doing in terms of your medical history. And they've even offered people extra credit. There was an article on yahoo about having access to your browser history and they framed it in this very positive way that having access to your browser in history may uh allow you to receive extra credit. So you would be available. You'd you you'd have credit available to buy a home or a car. So bingo. Okay. We already know what social credit systems feel like. Um we call it our credit rating agencies. Okay. And you know what those guys do. It doesn't matter whether or not if it's on your record, doesn't matter whether or not you did it or what the extenuating circumstances were. It's in their algorithm and you will get your score and your score basically will determine the tax on your access to credit in the form of the interest that you pay on the money that they have been given by the federal government. Okay. That's the way this ecosystem works. Um they get that money at a huge discount and then they decide how worthy you are to receive it if you want to have credit. And so if you want to understand a little tiny version of the social credit system, it's right there in your credit score. I think the only thing that helps us here is that this may be the one subject where everyone loses. People on the left, People on the right, people in the center, everyone loses. If they impart a social credit system, if there is some sort of social credit app that you have to carry around on your phone that determines where you're allowed to go, what you're allowed to do, we're all gonna lose the oligarchs win. A very small percentage of the population wins. Yes. Right. But I mean the the general public, the people, the people that are divided about covid the people that are now gathering each other and you know, you losers who got the jab and look at you unvaccinated playgrounds. This nonsense is going on. Maybe this will be the one thing that unites us because we realize that this is tyranny. Um Welcome to the new boss. Welcome to the new overlords guys. Um, and uh, it's your choice. I'm gonna be dead. You know, I'm 62. It's good. It's my thanks. You're kind um you got some years in you bro settle in. It's it's our Children, it is our Children. It's our you know, I mean there there's they're challenged uniquely already because they are growing up with social media, their growing up with Tiktok and these invasive apps that are tracking all their movement and everything they do and by and see and what they look up and they cross platform, they share this data, cross platform. It's very sketchy stuff and that the fact that it's happened and it happened so quickly and that our data, which seemed to be nothing, became one of the most valuable commodities in the world. And then that data is used to manipulate all the people on the planet. So we're touching on some deep stuff about the kids and I forgive me for a unabashed promotion for the Unity Project, which I serve as chief medical and regulatory officer for. So that's Unity project online dot com. Com or org. It's calm. Um we're totally focused on the kids. And if you go on that site, you'll see a podcast that I did with a pediatric psychiatrist out of LA and a pediatric cardiologist who's also a PhD in vascular inflammation curt Milton. And I got those two guys on to talk about what's happening to our Children and in particular the psychological damage of these lockdowns. This mask use the school policies, the bullying of Children who are unvaccinated. The psychological damage is huge. We're having a worldwide epidemic of suicide in Children. We are having a huge surge of drug abuse in adolescents. We're having demonstrable drops in I. Q. And fundamental developmental milestones in the very young Like 20 i. q. points. Okay Children have to see faces to learn how to speak and to interact socially. You're talking about social intelligence which you're deep in and connectedness. We're raising a generation of Children and that had been blocked from their ability because their brains are developing extremely rapidly at this age. The ability for their brains to assimilate the information necessary for them to become functional citizens and parents. We're destroying it without a second thought and the damage is going to last for generations and is if that's not bad enough we're allowing the state to insert itself into the family and make decisions by mandating vaccination. Okay this is why these these childhood vaccines mandates are obscene. We're setting up a situation in which Children are going to see peers who have been vaccine damaged as a consequence of the policies that their teachers and their government have forced on them. Um the the damage here is going to be with us for generations. I'm not being chicken little here. This is deep profound stuff. It's way beyond myocarditis And No one seems to care. No one talks to Children. There was a big breakthrough we all celebrated a week ago. Face the nation. What on the on the annual roundup of of stories that have been under reported, one of the speakers got up Journalists and, and and said to the other group, I think one of the most under reported stories has been the damage that's happened to our Children. And did you see what happened with the other journalists? Nobody said a word. They moved on. It was hardly covered in the media. Well, she even glossed over the damaged by the vaccine. Agreed. How, how could she speak about the vaccines? I suspect she may lose her job. She's not gonna be invited back on that program again, I doubt. I mean, how could she speak about the damage of the vaccines? Did she really just briefly touched on it? Yeah. So, so the point because it's dangerous. It's insanely dangerous to speak truth to power right now. Before we wrap this up, why is the vaccine uniquely dangerous to Children? Good question. Um, that the, and I'm not completely. So the data here's the problem with the media card itis bias in Children in uh, the data set particularly boys. Okay. One of the things there is clearly an androgen component to the risk of both the vaccine and the disease of the the virus. And that's why anti androgens, by the way, pierre Kory shout out to him for a champion of anti androgens, androgens being added to his math plus protocol. Okay, particularly for men. Um, so why are boys there? There's probably a component of that that has to do with an artifact in the data. That being that when us old codgers in general as a population have a much higher risk of cardiac events. And so if there's a heart attack in, in one of us, it's really hard to say is it just because we're old? Um, or is it a vaccine related? Okay. So then the vaccine, if there are vaccine related events buried in that we're not gonna see them statistically, it's really hard to pull it out. Whereas kids don't have heart attacks and they don't have strokes. So you can see those things really clearly against the background of virtually nothing. So that's, it may be partially an artifact of reporting and bias because of confounding variables and it maybe there are other effects. Um, in terms of your over broader question moving outside the myocarditis, why are Children more susceptible to these adverse events? I think they're not. I think the problem is that we're seeing it in the kids, but it's present in the adult population also. I think there is a significant reporting bias going on against reporting adult vaccine injury. I think that we have more in in how, why would I say that? Because I'm a vaccine denier, I'm a bad guy and I have some perverse incentive to have that media hit me. Um, no, we have these reports from hospitalists and nurses, the ones that often it's the nurses that are able to speak for summaries and the nurses are disclosing things that they're seeing in their hospitals and the physicians are all shutting up. Is it because they have financial incentives or because they're all owned because they have such debt burdens? I don't know. But the nurses are speaking out and they're saying, hey, we're seeing strokes and heart attacks in these other types of problems that are known to be associated with the jabs. Well, it's hard to say because we got the virus in the in the vaccines overlapping, You know, is it chicken or egg? Um, we know that they're happening, we know that the deaths are happening. That's like the the um um excuses that are made about the sudden deaths in high performing athletes that are being observed all over the world, particularly in footballers, um that where they're just suddenly dropping is it because they've been infected or they because they've been jabbed and I think it's a mixture of both. But if it's from the vaccines, the thing about the vaccines is that's and you know, we have this principle, we used to of do no harm. And in um, if a if a virus naturally infects you and you have a damage from it. I haven't caused that damage as a physician. If I'm recommending that you take a drug an intervention, they didn't need to have you may or may not have gotten infected and it causes damage. Well, I gotta kind of own that as a physician as a representative of the medical industrial complex and a participant in it. And so for whatever reason there's an under reporting bias clearly in the adult population and I think that people being me a little more sensitive to adverse events and deaths in their Children robert. Thank you for everything. I really appreciate you appreciate you being here. Um If people want to read more of your work now that you've been banned from twitter, where are you? Where are you still on linkedin? Are you gone from linkedin? I'm still on linkedin. I'm really cautious on linkedin. Um And I'm on Substack. So that's our W Malone M. D. And who knows Substack is probably the best place though. Right? It's it's the the problem with Substack. Yeah it is least censored and and I would love more substack subscriptions but I have a financial conflict of interest there. So I don't want to pump it, but that is I try to use Substack for more in depth intellectual pieces. Thought pieces, not just, I mean Alex bless his heart. He blasts everything out as if substack is twitter, that's not my style. So I'm going to be using Getter for that thread that that's a that's a twitter alternative. I don't know about Getter. Yeah. No it's it's been waiting for one though so I'm using Getter. Um And and again at at R. W. Malone M. D. Is it spelled like G. E T T E R G T G E T T E R. Do you want it Jamie? No G T tr Yeah, so getter is, is branded as the twitter killer. It is explicitly a twitter alternative. Is it? All right wing crazy. People know it's a lot of, it's a lot of people that have been, it's a lot of people get started off. It's, yeah, it's, it's it's were, you know, they are committed to um, not censoring. Beautiful. I support that entirely. I mean I just, there's a problem with some of these that they do get infected by people that were shipped posters. You know which ship posters are people just, yeah, I mean I've, I've been on social media a long time. I used to be on yahoo stock chat boards. That's kind of where I cut my teeth. Well um, robert thank you very much. Um, just thank you for everything. And uh, I hope this, uh, I hope this helps. Thank you so seriously thank you for your service to your nation into the world. My pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for everything by everybody. So uh folks were, we actually went outside and talked and robert realized that he had forgotten to tell everybody about this rally and then I picked up snoop. Who's with me now. Um, so there is a rally january 23rd. Where is it you want to give us the details Washington D. C. Between the Washington monument and Lincoln memorial. Um so this is the defeat the mandates american homecoming rally. And thanks a lot for letting me put the plug in the website is www dot defeat The mandates D C dot com. So this is not about being anti vaccines. It's about being anti mandates. And our hope is that we bring people together. I know that's one of your core messages. People from every walk of life, every party, every religion, every ethnic background, democrat, Republican vaccinated unvaccinated. The thing that we can agree on is personal liberty and the right of people to make their own choice. And that's what this rally is about, is to resist these mandates of the vaccine. Whether you believe in it or don't believe in it. I hope that you believe in the integrity and freedom of your fellow man and woman to make their own bodily choices. So this is going to be part of the same day worldwide rally for freedom. That's going to come across the entire world. This is in Australia in europe, in U. K. And in the United States for the first time. So we ask that you join us. We're uh we're asking our our objective is to end the vaccine mandates and also no vaccine, passports, no vaccination for healthy Children. No to censorship. No to limits on reasonable debate and this censorship and in propaganda that we're constantly bombarded with we believe in the power of natural immunity, We believe and insist on informed consent, and we insist on allowing doctors and patients making decisions without interference together. So joe thank you for allowing me to correct my grievous uh, error here worries we realized it. Um, so one more time with the website, it's defeat the mandates dot com. Now it's defeat the mandates dc dot com. And you can find all the information january 23rd. It's a sunday join, not just with people in the United States but from all over the world for our common good. Beautiful. Thank you. Thanks again, everyone.